Some deals are just unbelievably good in the world of points and miles … and a select few are too good to last forever. That’s why the guys are shining the light on some of the best deals in all of points and miles - the ones you should book ASAP before they disappear. Whether you’re spending 2,000 miles on a domestic flight, 60,000 miles to fly business class to Japan, or flying lie-flat to London for a fraction of the miles (and fees) that other airlines charge, we analyze the endangered species of points and miles redemptions. Plus, the guys unpack Alaska’s family-friendly update and wonder aloud: Should there be a smoking section inside Southwest’s upcoming lounges?
Some deals are just unbelievably good in the world of points and miles … and a select few are too good to last forever. That’s why the guys are shining the light on some of the best deals in all of points and miles - the ones you should book ASAP before they disappear. Whether you’re spending 2,000 miles on a domestic flight, 60,000 miles to fly business class to Japan, or flying lie-flat to London for a fraction of the miles (and fees) that other airlines charge, we analyze the endangered species of points and miles redemptions. Plus, the guys unpack Alaska’s family-friendly update and wonder aloud: Should there be a smoking section inside Southwest’s upcoming lounges?
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00:00 - Travel hacks we won’t gatekeep … even questionable ones
02:05 - Sherie welcomes us back to the show from Lauterbrunnen!
02:45 - Alaska goes worst to first for its lap infant policy
07:20 - Southwest announces lounges and a premium card
12:10 - A word from our sponsor: Bilt Rewards!
13:20 - Endangered: The 10 best deals that are too good to last
46:20 - Extinct: The ones that got away
50:35 - Jennifer asks: When should you buck the flights first rule?
52:20 - Katie asks: What happens to your points bonus if you downgrade?
54:50 - On the Spot: What deal would you un-gatekeep?
Produced and edited by Sylvia Thomas
Video editing by Kyle Thomas
Show music: “All That” by Benjamin Tissot
Yo, welcome to the show. I'm your host, Gunnar Olsen, and joining me in Studio A at the Thrifty Traveler world headquarters in Minnesota, it's Thrifty Traveler Chief Global Executive Editor, Kyle Potter. Kyle, welcome to the show. Where's Studio B? Studio B is, uh, in progress right now. It's being built? Yeah, it's everywhere else in the office. What happens in there? I don't know. That's- that's for our next spinoff podcast. Uh, all right. Today, Kyle, we're talking about the points and miles deals that are probably too good to last. They're the deals that we refuse to gatekeep from our fellow travelers, so we're just gonna lay them bare for everybody to book while they still exist for us all. Uh, along those lines, Kyle, I wanna find something out. Do you have any travel tips or hacks that you've gatekept over the years? I want you to swing the gate open. Let's- let's- let's figure out what is left out there to get to people. Just travel hacks. I'm not talking about the deals yet, just what are the travel tips you have? This is gonna be a terrible answer and a bad start to a podcast. I don't think I do. I think that's kind of our ethos here, is that we share every tip that we can. We share every deal that we can. So I don't know, maybe if you have something that will unlock something for me, but I got nothing. I think I've shared everything I know. I have one, and I have talked about this before, but not at length. So it's not. And that's, and, and, uh- That's not a satisfying answer to this question, either. Great ... and, uh, I don't talk about it a ton because it is illegal- ... but the BYO boarding drink- ... the- the- the to-go cocktail from the lounge where you take your last drink, you take your last champagne, and you put it in your- your, uh, coffee cup, and then you can just bring it through the terminal and onto the plane, that's how you get a boarding drink in economy. Uh, it is not a- you are not allowed to drink alcohol you've brought on board, but it's nice to have a little boarding drink, you know? " I don't talk about it a lot because it's illegal" is going down in TT lore forever. What are they gonna do? Yeah. What are they gonna do? I- they're- somebody's gonna storm into Studio B three weeks from now and arrest you. Okay. Today on the show, we're talking about Alaska's really positive change to its Atmos program, we're talking about Southwest lounges, and we're breaking down the points and miles flight deals that are just too good to last. All that and more. Greetings from Lauterbrunnen, Switzerland. Welcome back to the Thrifty Traveler podcast. Welcoming us back this week was Sherry in Switzerland. The Lauterbrunnen Valley is one of the most magical places on Earth, Kyle. My wife and I spent a week in Murren several years ago. It was our first trip abroad together. The Swiss Alps, but particularly that valley, are out of this world. Uh, I really, really love this video from Sherry. Thank you for sending it in. Uh, let's get into something hot and cold, a look at the good and bad news out there for travelers, and we'll start with something hot. Uh, Kyle, the, on some airlines, the only thing harder than adding a lap infant to your reservation is actually raising that infant, and we have a rare case in which Alaska probably went from worst to first on this. Uh, every airline has a different policy and mechanism for doing this. Uh, this is particularly when you're adding a lap infant to your reservation. So you're not buying them a seat, you just wanna add the infant that you're gonna have screaming on your lap for as long as the flight takes, typically. Um, some airlines charge, like, a percent of the cash fare. That's kinda the norm for the most part for the foreign airlines. Some charge just a flat 5,000-mile fee like Air Canada does, which is a pretty customer-friendly policy. Some airlines, like now Alaska, just charge the taxes and fees. For a long time, Alaska's policy was really infuriating. You couldn't add an infant online at all. Uh, they got, you know, their website would just explicitly tell you, "We don't do infant award tickets." You would have to call and figure it out, figure it out, and then someone would tell you what you're going to pay once you were on the phone. Uh, now it's just the taxes and fees for all bookings booked with Alaska Atmos. The big change is it used to be just for Alaska and Hawaiian-operated flights, now it's for all partners, too. So whether you're f- using Alaska miles to fly Alaska or Hawaiian out to Hawaii or Cathay Pacific to Hong Kong or Qatar Airways to the Middle East. Yeah. Yeah, it's a, a really, really, really great, uh, update to this program. I should shout out that Ben at One Mile At A Time discovered this last week. But yeah, all of the partners being involved is really good. Um, this is just really exciting news for someone who uses Alaska Atmos all the time, and also a father, in that order. But what do you think, Kyle? What do you think about this new change? Is that how you think of yourself holistically- Yeah ... a consistent user of Alaska Atmos, but also a father? Yeah, exactly. Where does podcaster fit into that list? Third. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Hard third. Okay. Uh, yeah, this is, this is amazing news to the point you made. It is just a crapshoot as to whether the airline that you're booking through has an easy way or a cheap way to add a lap infant or doesn't have a way at all, which Alaska, for most of the last decade and change, fit under the latter portion of that. So this is great. Taking the guesswork out of it, I think, is the biggest thing I do wonder if because it can be such a technological hurdle to get this done, that if they were just like, "Well, you know what? We're gonna do it free. We're good. You're good." Yeah, I think so. And also, you know, they had to basically start, because they started flying their own long haul international flights just recently, they probably had to start from scratch on a policy and realize, uh, we probably need a policy here, and why don't we just make it the most customer-friendly one possible? I love it. It's a really, really great decision from them. I, I do think a big piece of it was probably just this was the easiest way, even if it isn't the most profitable. I also think that airlines, the best airlines find creative ways to give people that extra little surprise and delight or a reason to engage more with their mileage program. Aeroplan has been like the hallmark of this, of just like having these little things that you can do with that program to add several stopovers on the same ticket, for example, or do multi-city trips and multi-leg trips without raising the cost This is, I think, kind of in that vein too, where you're giving parents a reason to pay close attention to this program. And you know what? If you end up, if you have a lap infant going on your first trip to Europe, that means two years from then or a year from then, you're probably gonna be paying for that child to join you on your next trip, and now you have a great feeling about the experience you had booking with Atmos. So I think this is a pretty savvy way to approach this. Yeah. Atmos is already the best. It's just another great way to, uh, get some value when you're flying as a young family. All right. What's, what's the worst one that you've dealt with, if not for Alaska? At, at the beginning it was probably Alaska- Yeah just because there was almost nothing that you could do. Um, the worst one that I've dealt with, uh, sometimes just when you're booking with partners it's always a little tricky. It's kind of a cop-out answer 'cause it is a lot of them. You're just dealing with, you reach out to an airline who tells you you need to talk to the other airline, who tells you go back to the first one, and then you're bouncing back and forth trying to find an agent who can actually help you. Usually it just takes a few extra calls and you can get it done. But, um, yeah, I think Finnair was the one where I was worried I was gonna have to pay 10% of the cash price, and then I just got an agent who just charged me the taxes and fees. I still don't understand why that happened, uh, but that one was a, a nice little surprise and delight. So I haven't had any, like, horrible experiences so far, but we still got a year to go. Yeah, you still, you still got time. All right, Kyle, let's pivot to something cold. I want you to picture this. It is 2016, a US airline has announced its new plan to attract new customers and maintain their loyalty by opening a series of airline lounges at some of its major hub airports. To go with it, the airline has announced a premium credit card to give those travelers access to those lounges. It's a pretty familiar story in the airline industry. I lied about one part, Kyle. It's not 2016, it's 2026, and that airline is Southwest Airlines. That is exactly what they announced last week, about 10 years too late, which is why it's something cold this week, although I do like this announcement. It is, maybe it's unfair that this is something cold. Well, I mean, I think there's something to be said about the fact that the most profitable and arguably the most innovative airline in the history of US airlines, or maybe the world, looked around and said, "Hey, you know what? Maybe lounges are a thing after everything that we've been through," or, "Hey, maybe a new premium Premium travel credit card. We could do that. Nobody's thought of that, right? It's just really funny. It is really funny. So, uh, Southwest said its first clubs are gonna open in Austin, Baltimore, Honolulu, and Nashville, and they'll start opening in late 2027. Perhaps most notably in the announcement, Southwest said that it has plans for seven more lounges, bringing its total to 11 when it's all said and done. That is a pretty aggressive network to start a lounge network with. That's a lot. That's a lot of lounge space that they need to find. Uh, they're gonna be operated in conjunction with Chase and its Chase Sapphire Lounge network, which I think is a really great sign for the potential quality- Right ... of these lounges. Uh, first, Cal, your thoughts on just the lounges themselves in conjunction with Chase. Uh, Southwest hasn't said a lot beyond the fact that they're partnering with Chase to build these. Would I expect them to be on par with Chase Sapphire Lounges in Boston and Philadelphia and LaGuardia? Probably not. I think if only because there's a certain amount of irony here that the airline that pretty much democratized travel in the United States is now saying, "We're gonna create premium spaces for our most valuable and highest paying travelers." Just doesn't really fit in with the Southwest DNA that we've known, but I guess it also says that the shift is official, that Southwest really is just becoming another US airline, and I think that that is probably gonna be a financial win for them. It's still a little bit sad. You know, the Southwest that everybody, mostly everybody loved for the last four-plus decades, that airline really doesn't exist anymore. Yeah. I, I really hope that these clubs are a little goofy and weird like Southwest is, you know? If they're just like every other lounge, that's gonna be pretty disappointing, especially if you're 10 years late to the game or more in a lot of cases. Yeah. Why don't you just make it, like, really unique and interesting and, you know, we don't need more bespoke art and design and locally curated chef-inspired menu. Like, just give me something really weird and kooky. I don't know, it's Southwest. What if in honor of Southwest founder Herb Kelleher, the- they only served Wild Turkey bourbon and they also had a specific smoking section? Yes. 'Cause, uh, that, if Herb wanted anything, that's what he would want. This guy was a legendary drinker, and the only thing he was more legendary than, than for drinking was for waking up and smoking a cigarette the moment he woke up until he passed away. Like those boxes in the European airports where you're allowed to just go in there and rip darts? Yeah. They should just have a little Herb section where you get a Wild Turkey and a dart when you go in there. Herb's office. Herb's office. Southwest, we're onto something here. You're welcome, Southwest. You've got two professional marketers in the room telling you how to do this. All right, uh, perhaps the most important part of the announcement is that there's gonna be a new Southwest Rapid Rewards credit card from Chase that'll launch in 2027, too. There aren't many details. The only one we know is that it will include lounge access. Right now, their highest priced card comes in at, like, $229 annual fee, so we're presumably looking at something north of $400 is just my guess for an annual fee for the lounge credit card. Uh, what do you think about this potential new premium card? I think they're gonna have to do more than lounge access to make this enticing because the, the entire concept of lounges is going to be so new to Southwest. There's gonna have to be something else here, and I'm confident there will be. Um, I think 450 at a minimum a year is probably the starting point for this. Um, but, you know, I, I think they need to, they need to get moving on shedding some light on what these lounges are actually going to be like and whether they will in fact have Herb's office. Herb's office coming to Chicago Midway near you. What a perfect way to wrap up a weekend trip, huh? Yeah. Just a, a quick stop at Herb's office on the way home. Outstanding. Southwest, take our advice please. Do something fun with these lounges. All right, we need to talk about all of the award deals that are too good to last, but first we're gonna take a quick break. All right, it's time for the Extra Mile, where we dig a little deeper on an important travel topic, and it's inspired, as always, by our awesome Extra Mile newsletter. It hits your inboxes every weekday morning, giving you the latest travel news, deep dives, and occasionally a glimpse inside the Thrifty Traveler team Slack. Actually, you were highlighted in this week's, uh, from the T- Thrifty Traveler team Slack, uh, from your trip to China several years ago. That was a good, good story in there. You- Go check that one out ... you're gonna have to read it. I can't repeat it here. Sign up today at thriftytraveler.com/extramile to get that newsletter every day. All right, this week on the Extra Mile, we're spelling out the best of the best redemptions in the world of award travel. It's the cream of the crop, our favorites, the most unbelievable deals in points and miles. But here's the thing, in the travel world, amazing deals usually aren't long for this world, because the airlines and hotels eventually realize that they're just too good. This list would've been much longer a year or so ago, uh, and the list's probably gonna be different again in, in a year from now. It- this list could be dated by the time this episode comes out. There's a very real possibility there. With these deals, if you can book them before they're gone, and you really should, they're some of the biggest wins in award travel. So this week we are, we're opening the gate to Thrifty Traveler world headquarters. We're letting you all in to see our favorite redemptions that are out there right now. Um, and we're gonna use, uh, a, an important scale, an important international scale here to talk about how endangered these are. This is the International Union for the Conservation of Nature scale for conservation status. This is what tells you if species are extinct or endangered. It's either extinct, critically endangered, endangered, vulnerable, near threatened, or least concern. They c- probably could've been a little pithier with their list, but I digress. They didn't enlist our help. They didn't, unlike, uh, Southwest, who has now hired us on full-time as consultants. It just happened r- it d- happened during the commercial break, yeah. Okay, I'm gonna start, Kyle. Um, and I think this is the best deal in all of award travel right now. Um, it is booking Japan Airlines business class to Japan for 60,000 American Airlines miles each way. Uh, like I said, I think this is the best redemption in points and miles, the best bang for your buck. 60,000 is just a rate that does not make sense for a lot of these routes, especially all the way from the East Coast to Japan. Um, it is started to devalue already in that it used to be you could book connections on American Airlines to an Am- to a Japan Airlines hub, all for that same 60K price. Now those connections are gonna cost you 80K total. Uh, so- So flying from Chicago to Tokyo costs 60,000. Flying from Minneapolis to Chicago to Tokyo costs 80,000. Well put. Thank you. Um, basically, this just, this can't last long. I'm gonna designate this as critically endangered. I just think this, this deal is so good- The one thing that gives me pause on that is that it has lasted for so long already. I just, something must be working for both American and Japan Airlines to keep doing this, but man, this, this rate is too good, especially when you're flying from the US, $5.60 in taxes and fees, completely flexible. I think this is the best deal in travel right now. Well, we joked earlier about it being 2016 and Southwest talking about lounges. The irony here is that American Airlines award chart for Oneworld partners like Japan Airlines has not changed since 2016, and we've been worried, rightfully so, I think, that it would, and that it will next year, you know, come March or April, the next time American goes through one of these cycles. It's only a matter of time until that happens, where, you know, 60,000, a rate of as low as 60,000 for a one-way in Japan Airlines business class becomes at least 90 or 100. But already I think we've seen, you know, them futzing with the rates with these connections like you talked about, but also more importantly, Japan Airlines is just getting so much stingier with award availability, like many airlines are with their premium cabins, especially when allowing partners like American or Alaska and others to book them. I mean, it used to be really easy to book, you know, 10, eight to 10 months in advance, and you would have your pick as long as you were flexible with which hubs you can, could fly from, flying to Tokyo or back. Now, you know, you gotta be really flexible. You have to be willing to jump on, you know, an alert that we send to our premium members where it's only departing from San Diego or only from San Francisco over a two-month span where there's 20-some days in there. It's few and f- fewer and further between than it's been at any point in the last six-plus years. Yeah, definitely. Um, that is my number one pick. What about you, Kyle? My, so I d- I guess maybe I didn't understand that we were gonna do these, uh, in order. Uh- Well, it doesn't have to be in order. I'm just saying- Okay your, your first options, right? My, okay, my first one, I th- is the one that I use the most, is probably what you use the most too, which is booking Delta-operated flights through Air France KLM Flying Blue. To be able to book a short-haul flight, you know, of 500 some miles, an hour or less, let's say, for as low as 5,000 miles each way, even if Delta is charging 25,000 SkyMiles for that exact same Delta-operated flight, uh, to get down to Mexico for as low as 14,000 miles each way, um, out to Hawaii and back for 50,000 miles round trip when Delta charges, you know, especially for non-stops to either Maui or Honolulu, over 150,000 SkyMiles in some cases. And all of these are for main cabin fares where you can pick your seat. I think this is w- this is the best workaround in the world of points and miles to me, especially for people who live in or near Delta hubs where they need to fly Delta and Delta's own pricing can be pretty gross. Yeah, we talked about this in our starter kit episode about redeeming points and miles, but this is the, the most frequent way that I book flights. I could probably have phrased that better if I was a professional podcaster. Uh, this is the f- the booking that I do the most often because we have to fly Delta from here so often, and Delta charges crazy high fares and really high SkyMiles fares. So these flexible points that I have, I send them over to Air France all the time to book these short-hop Delta flights, and it's such a good booking. And there are so many ways to earn Air France miles because you can transfer them from every single major bank, from American Express to Capital One to Chase to Citi to Bilt to w- everything else. Um, so it's just, it's so, so easy to get these miles and then still book for a fraction of what Delta might be charging. I would put this one on our very important and authoritative scale probably Vulnerable, middle of the pack. Um, you know, I'm- I don't think it's, like, an urgent thing that's going to happen. I do think it's only a matter of time because for many, many years we said that Virgin Atlantic Flying Club points were the way to book Delta flights, and over the last three years or so, they've just chipped away at that bit by bit, where you used to be able to book a one-way business class fare to Europe for 50,000 points. That's gone. To Asia for 60,000 points in business, in Delta business class. That's gone. They've raised award rates on all but the shortest of the shortest Delta flights, where even then, you know, they're charging seven- 7,500 miles each way, so you're b- almost always gonna be better off booking through Air France instead. So I- it is only a matter of time, especially after the changes we've started to see Air France make this year, but I'm not, I'm not too worried about it just yet. Yeah. No, that's a great one. I really like it. On to my second one. Um, my second one is gonna be American Airlines long-haul flights bookable with AA miles that always book into main cabin. So this is a couple of different deals I've kinda thrown into one. I'm cheating a little bit. Usually it's, like, 42,000 American Advantage miles round trip, or less in some cases, to Europe, for instance, on American flights, and those book straight into the main cabin. When you book with AA miles, they do not sell you basic economy, dot dot dot, yet which is why this is on our- Which is why I'm considering this- Yeah uh, perhaps threatened here. I think that'll be near threatened is the distinction I'm giving this one. That rate, that 42,000-mile rate, I don't think that rate is necessarily gonna go up. What I think might happen over time is that they just allow you to book basic economy- At that rate ... at that rate- Yeah and then they kinda raise the price on the main cabin. But we've seen this. It's, it's usually when this sale happens, 70,000 AA miles round trip to Japan, 75,000 AA miles round trip to Bangkok. We've seen that deal pop up several times. Again, this is all usually in the main cabin, especially those Asia routes are usually flying Japan Airlines, which probably has the best economy class in the world- Right I think you would say. Um, so main cabin is just the big factor here. I think that s- someday American Airlines is going to, uh, come to their senses and start charging for basic eco- charging basic economy for these lowest rates, um, which really stinks. Uh, right now I love that they only let you book into the main cabin. The, the two things I really love about this one are, one, when we see these rates, like 42,000 m- miles round trip to Europe, sometimes less- It is so widespread. It's across, you know, six-plus months of the calendar, often, you know, a- as far as 10 or 11 months in advance, so you can plan a trip around this. And it's not just from Philadelphia and Charlotte and Chicago, you know, some of American's biggest nonstop hubs to Europe, but from airports nationwide, whether you need to take one connection or in some cases two from a tiny airport. And two, in almost every single case that I can remember, you can book these separately as one-ways for 21,000 miles each way, sometimes less, which if you're struggling to piece together a trip, the value of, of that is just massive. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, what's your next one? My next one is one that we talked about at our live show in Minneapolis, and people were so concerned about saying this out loud, they tried to shush me on the stage. It is, uh, flying to Europe from one airport in the United States for 15,000 miles each way and minimal taxes and fees. It's using Virgin Atlantic Flying Club points to fly either Air France or KLM. And from almost every airport in the country where either of those airlines operate, they'll charge you, uh, as low as 15,000 miles, in some cases 12,000 miles each way from the East Coast. But, like, 160, even $200 in taxes and fees for the one-way to Europe, and, like, 400 on the way back. And there's one airport that's an exception to this, which is our home airport of Minneapolis-Saint Paul International, where it is a $5.60 tax and s- fee for a one-way flight flying either Air France or KLM to Amsterdam or Paris. And for a round trip, it's typically in the neighborhood of $200 or so. You can fly nonstop to either Amsterdam or Paris or connect onward basically anywhere in Western Europe for the same amount of miles and, in some cases, a couple dollars more in taxes and fees. This is one of the best at deals in travel, period. And w- we have been worried about this one disappearing for as long as I can remember, and we've been sending this alert when we can find availability to our premium members for, like, seven years now, and it's still there. So I don't know where this sits on, on our rankings. It's probably somewhere in the neighborhood of endangered. But, man, this is so good. I vividly remember talking to one of our premium members who said he had booked this redemption from Minneapolis to anywhere in Europe flying Air France or KLM using Virgin f- Virgin Atlantic Flying Club points, like, eight times round trip. It's, to be able to do that for 30,000 miles round trip is incredible. I think the day I started here at Thrifty Traveler, like, five years ago, I thought that this was n- th- its days were numbered. I thought this was probably coming to a close. I think y- you all were talking about, like, "Oh, well, this deal's not gonna last much longer now," and it just for some reason has eluded Virgin's purview in a way that makes no sense at all. This should not exist, but take advantage if you can, especially if you live anywhere near MSP or you can easily position to MSP. This is a really, really good deal. To save on those taxes and fees is huge. I mean, it, it could be the difference between you taking the trip and not. I mean, there are so many economy redemptions that are in the same neighborhood of points, you know, somewhere between 12 and 20,000 miles, uh, for a one-way, so 24 to 40,000 round trip, but you get hit with $500 or more in taxes and fees, which might be pretty darn close to what it is to just buy that cash fare And this is a massive exception from one airport. Um, we are just so lucky that we have this one. Yeah. If you need proof that we are not gatekeeping the best deals, this is the deal that impacts us the most as MSP residents, and, uh, we're giving it to you. We're giving it to you, so go take advantage while it still exists. Uh, my third one, Kyle, um, using Alaska Atmos to book short-haul American Airlines flights. The shortest ones you can get for 4,500 Atmos each way in economy or just 9,000 each way in first class on American Airlines. I would consider this, uh, vulnerable. Um, I've gotten so much value out of this. I use it for short hops to Chicago all the time from MSP for 4,500 in economy. I've done it actually for a flight, two flights coming back from Chicago this fall where I just booked us into first class 'cause first class was still so much cheaper than economy on Delta using points and miles, and we needed the extra bags 'cause we're bringing the infant along. Um, I've used it for, like, slightly longer flights to Phoenix as well. Um, I just think especially that first class redemption, just 9,000 miles each way is, is a crazy value. Uh, but I think Alaska's pricing these just a little too low maybe for Americans' liking, which is why I think this is possibly vulnerable. But this Alaska program to book American flights is so, so good. It is a really good one. Uh, I am really jealous of people that have much more flights on American Airlines than what we do here in Minneapolis, where we basically have Chicago and Dallas and Phoenix and Charlotte, and that's kind of it. I mean, if you live in an American Airlines hub, you're probably paying exorbitant, in many cases, uh, advantage mileage rates for just quick domestic trips. You're probably just booking with cash instead. But if you can earn Alaska miles, this is great. Yeah, seriously. If, if you live in Charlotte, like, the airport in the US that is the most hub captive, like, they are the most strangled by one airline in Charlotte, you need to be making Atmos a major part of your points earning strategy because the savings are so good. And like I said, even on those short flights, you can get even up to first class for single-digit points round trip. It's, or, uh, each way. It's pretty amazing. So what's your next one, Kyle? Your third choice. My next one, we're finally getting into hotels, and I'm gonna single out, um, the Hilton Honors free night certificates, which are the single most powerful free night certificates of any hotel chain. It's not even close because every other hotel chain caps what kind of properties you can book with these. Marriott has a handful where it might be as little as 35,000 points per night. It might be as much as 85,000 points per night, and then you can kick in some more points to cover the difference. And IHG, it's 40,000 points per night, I believe, and Hyatt, it's basically 15 to 20 Hilton, there is no cap. You can book any single property so long as there is standard award availability, whether that's 35,000 Hilton Honors points per night for a Hilton Garden Inn in Dubuque, Iowa, or, um, Calala Island, a private island in the Caribbean off the coast of Nicaragua that costs, I think, 240,000 points per night. You can use your Hilton free night certificate for either of those. This is, I ... This is probably on the verge of going extinct. I'm surprised that as they have raised award rates at so many properties within the last two years, that they haven't taken a hammer to the free night certificate and put some guardrails around it just yet. I think it's really only a matter of time. All right, I'll give it the critically endangered, uh, designation then, but you're right. This is almost extinct. Have you ever had a Hilton agent on the phone when you're calling to use your free night, like, give you a pat on the back for the booking? Every single time. They always do that. They, 'cause they'll look at the cash price, and they'll tell you at the end, like, "Oh, sir, uh, by booking, by using your free night, you saved," and then sometimes they'll be like, "Whoa, you saved $2,600 on this free night at this hotel in Rome that you have no business staying at." I love it when they do that. It's great. Sir, we see your paid stay is history. You cannot afford this. Good work. Yeah. And you know what? This one stands out even more, I think, because of all of the negative changes that we've seen across the hotel landscape, specifically with points and miles, in the last couple of years, where, you know, Hyatt really nuked its award chart and is even now tweaking transfer ratios from Chase to Hyatt, um, effective October 1st. Marriott prices, unless if you're in the right corners of Asia and then, to a lesser extent, um, Australia and the Middle East, are just through the roof basically everywhere. The same is true of IHG. Hyatt has done th- or Hilton has done this itself, too And yet there's still this option to be able to book the priciest of the pricey Hilton resorts, including SLH, Small Luxury Hotels of the World properties that may cost thousands of dollars per night in some cases. You can book a night with a free night certificate, throw in some points for another night or two, whatever you need to do in order to make it a longer stay. But having the ability to use this for the cream of the crop Hilton properties is amazing. Yeah. This was kind of the, the clinching point you made when, way back when we started this podcast, we did the Hyatt versus Hilton discussion, and you kinda convinced me to dip my toe into the Hilton ecosystem, and this, this just uncapped free night is so, so valuable, and I've gotten so many awesome hotel stays out of it in the years since you've convinced me to do that. So really good one there. Critically endangered, Hilton's uncapped free night certificates. My fourth choice, Kyle, um, I've got a very One World, very American Airlines theme in mind I realize now, but, uh, booking American Airlines to the Caribbean for between, like, 9,000 and 20,000 American Airlines miles round trip, um, especially from the East Coast and the Southeast if you're making those connections through Miami, sometimes those get incredibly cheap, like 9,000 round trip from a lot of these places. Um, the prices are super low, and even for peak season, they really don't raise rates that much during the peak season months, especially if you can book out in advance. But this is a, a flight deal that our team at Thrifty Traveler Premium finds all the time. We always send it out, and, and it's just one of those things that always makes you think, like, man, before, before you shell out 60,000 Delta Sky miles for one ticket, like, you could book the whole family for using your AA miles. Uh, AA miles to the Caribbean and Mexico are, is one of the best values in all of award travel. I would call this near threatened. I don't think it gets as much hype as some of these other, uh, redemptions do, so maybe AA hasn't caught on to what a good deal they're giving people quite yet. Um, but I think, you know, if this is one that you can take advantage of, especially if you can book a few months out in advance, you can get peak spring break, you know, peak Christmas break using some of these really, really cheap redemptions, um, and I highly recommend that you do. My, my wife and I flew home from, um, Antigua a couple falls ago, and at the time, despite the fact that it was at, toward the start of the peak season for, you know, going to that corner of the Caribbean, it was 8,000 Advantage miles each way to get home. I didn't have Advantage miles at the time, so I had to book through Finnair Avios, but I was like, man, that is And, and the cash prices were still quite high. I mean, it was more than $500 a piece for that exact same one-way flight from Antigua through Miami back to Minneapolis. There are so many flights to the Caribbean through Miami, and to a lesser extent Dallas, that I would say that this is either near threatened or just, like, not even a concern at all because it's all about supply and demand, and there are so many flights throughout the Caribbean, even to some of the most popular islands, that I think this is a slam dunk redemption for the foreseeable future. But you should get on it if you've been thinking about the Caribbean Figure out a plan to earn some American miles 'cause you're not gonna get a better deal. Yeah. Even the first class rates are also really low sometimes, especially if you're willing to fly early in the morning or late at night. There, there are some times where I was looking at some Caribbean flights and I was like, "Man, maybe I have to. Maybe I gotta go up front for this one." But that's an awesome redemption as well. Kyle, your fourth choice. Uh, I am a broken record on this, but I don't care. It truly is one of the single best redemptions in the world of points and miles for the round-trip discounts that you get when using Japan Airlines Mileage Bank to fly partner airlines. So as an example, you can book, uh, any OneWorld airline, uh, flying from the United States to Europe. You know, maybe it's Iberia, maybe it's American Airlines. It'll cost you, generally speaking, 60,000 miles each way. If you book that as a round trip, it's not 120,000 miles, it is 85,000 miles because of a quirk with how Japan Airlines actually measures the distance of your flight. All that matters is the total mileage that you're flying, whether you're flying one-way or round-trip, including if you're booking a flight with connections. So long as they're on the same airline, it's going to price out as it's one solid trip, which just opens up this world of unbelievable possibilities, and most importantly, not just on OneWorld airlines like Iberia or British Airways or American, but they also have some really, really valuable one-off partnerships with, like, Air France and Emirates. So you can fly JFK to Milan and back in Emirates business class for 85,000 miles and under $250 in taxes and fees, when that exact same redemption through Emirates would cost you over 100,000 miles and close to $1,000 in fees. I cannot believe that this still works with any of these airlines. It just, it defies logic that they would price things this way, and yet they've been doing this for not just more than a year since Japan Airlines Mileage Bank really hit the scene because banks started adding them as a transfer partner, but for as long as we know of. It's incredible. Yeah. Um, what would you give the designation here on our, our nature conservation scale? I would, I would put this one at, at endangered. I don't think it's I don't think it's, um, you know, imminent that something bad is gonna happen to this, but I also wouldn't sit on it either. If you are, need to make a, you know, need to make a trip to Europe somewhere and you wanna do it in business class, let's say, and you can just depart from the same city and come back, you might as well take advantage of this while you can. You can transfer points to Japan Airlines Mileage Bank on a one-to-one basis from both Bilt and Rove miles, and from Capital One to Japan Airlines. It's not a one-to-one, but at, through the month of September, there's a transfer bonus that gets it pretty darn close. So I, I'm taking advantage of this, uh, pretty soon. Yeah. Okay, I'm gonna go with my fifth and final choice for, uh, the deals that are maybe too good to last. This one is going to be Southwest Rapid Rewards Flash Sales. So this is, again, a little bit broad, but especially for flights to f- domestic flights and then also flights to Mexico. We've seen really solid flash sales for Rapid Rewards on flights to Mexico. My latest one that I booked was my flights down to Chicago to go see the White Sox Pope Hat Night. I booked a round-trip flight from MSP to Chicago Midway for 4,000 Rapid Rewards. That was when they ran a sale. Uh, it was tied to a cash sale. Uh, they didn't r- they didn't say that it was gonna be Rapid Rewards, but I made sure I checked the Rapid Rewards, and I accidentally had 4,000 Rapid Rewards that I threw at those flights. It's a, an unbelievable value. Um, more often I see about 3,000 each way on those shortest, uh, Southwest flights, but, you know, if you're looking at 6,000 points round-trip, 6,000 Southwest Rapid Rewards, especially if you can transfer them in from Bilt or Chase, that's a really, really good deal. Um, I don't know if this is too good to last or if it's just the norm. The reason why I'm giving this the designation of least concern, not, not close to endangered quite yet, is because with all the changes that Southwest has made, I still think being the lowest fare is their number one bullet they can fire to go get new customers, and I think when they run these cash sales, so often the, the, the Rapid Rewards price is tied to it. It's not explicitly tied to it anymore like it used to be, but, uh, they run these unbelievable sales and I just think they need the positive, uh, media attention they get from these low fares and just people bragging about how cheap they can still fly Southwest. Pricing power is and always has been Southwest's kinda number one strength, and I think that they're gonna continue to offer these crazy, wacky sales, uh, just like hopefully they open crazy, wacky lounges with smoking rooms someday. But the Southwest Rapid Rewards Flash Sales I think is, uh, is my fifth choice here and, but I'm still giving it just a least concern designation. But we, the, we probably need to put in a disclaimer that smoking is bad, and we don't think it should probably happen anywhere, let alone in public spaces. Uh, for the bit, though- We're committed to the bit apparently. Yeah, you know, I said earlier I wish that there were more American Airlines flights here at our home airport. I really, really wish that of Southwest because, you know, the ability. They have so many more flights to more destinations than basically any other airline in the country, at least nonstop, right? To benefit from that with some of these sales would be incredible. We get some of it, you know, to places like Midway and Nashville and Baltimore and a handful of others, but I would just kill for, you know, a whole, you know, a couple dozen Southwest routes would be really, really fun. So for people who live in one of those big Southwest strongholds like Denver or Nashville or Chicago, you gotta take advantage of these. They're some of the best deals in domestic travel, period. Yeah. Signing up for Southwest sale emails is just one of the easiest things you can do to save on travel in the long run 'cause when they announce sales, anything other than the, when they send you one that says fares as low as $59, that doesn't mean anything. That's just their standard sale. If they send anything else with like a promo code in it, that means that prices are actually going down, and it means prices are going down on all other airlines too. So a good travel hack there. Sign up for Southwest promo emails. You just gotta filter out the ones that say $59 on them. That's my, my special travel gatekeeping hack of the day. Your fifth choice, Hal. Fifth and final, we're going back to Japan Airlines. This is what I'm gonna be booking probably sometime this week British Airways, uh, has really still bucked the trend, at least so far, in still being very liberal with award availability to book business class. The problem for most people is that it doesn't really matter because the fees that they charge are absolutely disgusting, and nobody wants to pay $500 or $1,500 in cash on top of burning the miles to fly a business class seat. So flying from, in this example, from Chicago to London, British Airways itself charges 88,000 Avios and about $500 in taxes and fees. Finnair Avios, which you could kick over from British Airways to Finnair, you won't want to because it's that same 88,000 Avios each way and $1,500 in taxes and fees. Could book British Airways with American Airlines. It's 57,500 Advantage miles, a lot better, but $733 in taxes and fees. And yet you can book that exact same flight from Chicago to London for 42,000 Japan Airlines miles and $219. So if you do some quick math, you see that you can book flights for two in British Airways business class one way from Chicago to London for less than one passenger on either of those options. This is, I cannot believe how good this deal is. To me, this is the single best deal on this entire list, period, because British Airways still has a lot of award availability. So if you want to get to London or you just want to get over to Europe and you want to do it in a business class seat, this is as surefire of a bet as you can make. Now bef- like before, talking about booking round trip for a discount, you can do that with this too. You're gonna pay more because you're gonna wind up paying the departure taxes and fees from London, and especially from Chicago and the East Coast, the savings aren't as significant, so it's 42,000 one way, 80,000 miles round trip. But if, especially if you live, you know, if you're trying to depart from Dallas or certainly the West Coast, there's gonna be more significant savings on the mileage front. But even for a one-way ticket, this is amazing. Yeah, I think I slammed the door mentally on British Airways a few years ago just 'cause the taxes and fees got to be so egregious. Same. But Japan Airlines just pried that door back open, and now it's actually a possibility for travelers all over the country, which is a really, really good thing. And- $219 surcharge on a one-way business class ticket to London, uh, other than booking with some US-operated airlines where they'll still charge you $5.60, that is as good as it gets, period. Yeah. It does not get better than that. It's still stinks a little bit that it's that high, but compared to paying closer to $1,000 or 700 plus dollars if you're trying to book a Virgin Atlantic business class seat now over to London, this, this one really, really stands out Where would you put it on our scale before we move on? Oh, I'm gonna put that one at endangered. I think at some point the surcharges on that are gonna get raised, and they're gonna get raised by a lot, so get in, get in on it while you can. Okay, so when we were making our lists, I think we both assumed that the other would put this one on, and then it kinda didn't, so now we have an honorable mention category, and that is all of the Delta SkyMiles deals that they have on new routes or pretty new routes, routes that have been around for, like, a month or two where the bookings have more or less just opened, but, you know, they haven't been able to fill seats at the rate they want to yet. We're talking about, like, flights to Auckland, Taipei, Hong Kong, Brisbane, Marrakech w- as low as 25,000 SkyMiles round-trip all the way to Taipei and all the way to Brisbane, uh, all the way to Auckland. We've seen that deal go all the way to New Zealand as well. That is such a stunning flash sale, and the, the prices on that, if you're looking at just, like, a price per mile, I mean, that's about as good as it gets in award travel. Um, anything you have on these kinda Delta SkyMiles, and, and where would you rank them in terms of endangered? I would just say I think for, uh, all of the talk that we've rightfully given SkyMiles that you need to start paying attention that they're becoming much more valuable, new routes are really the common theme in almost all of the great deals that we've been seeing in the last four or five months Delta's gonna keep adding new routes, and some of these routes are now several years old, and we're still seeing great sales on them. So I would put this one at as low as it goes, uh- Least concerned? Least concern. I, I am not concerned about this at all. You know, maybe at some point the flash sales to Auckland aren't gonna be as prevalent or as deep as they are, but Delta's gonna add new routes, you know, for next year. There's gonna be more entries on this list. It's only a matter of time before we see a flash sale to Manila in the Philippines when Delta starts flying that next year. That is going to happen, and same with whatever else they decide to add next year. These are going to continue because it's clearly part of Delta's strategy, and I'm very much here for it. Yeah. We've, uh, we've spent many hours talking about Delta Sky Miles and these amazing flash sales on the show, but I'm glad we got to honorable mention them as one of the best deals in award travel. Uh, can we each do one that is extinct? Let's, let's do one deal that got away, one that we loved so much and maybe loved to death. Uh, I think this one of mine is definitely one of those in that category. Uh- We loved it to death ... we may have killed this one. We, we squeezed too hard. Yeah. Um, Hawaiian first class for 26,000 Finnair Avios each way. Um, I can definitely say we did kill this one. Uh, we found out about this and started sending it to our premium members, and then some other people in the points and miles world found out about this too and sent it to all their members, and then all of a sudden Finnair wised up and stopped charging an incorrect price for their first class flights. So what was, what was happening was Finnair was charging the premium economy rate for Hawaiian s- first class, their lie-flat business class seats, uh, flying over to Honolulu. Um, they did eventually wise up, and, and now the best deal is to book with Alaska Atmos for 40,000 miles each way, which is still an incredible deal for that flight especially. But, um, yeah, unfortunately, that one had to come to an end. 26,000 Finnair Avios each way was too good to be true, and it had to end eventually, right? Yeah. Well, and nobody should be surprised by that. We certainly weren't. And, you know, I think it's tempting to say, "Well, y- you guys killed the deal." And you know what? Fair. We probably did. But at the same token, if you're looking at some of these things and you say to yourself, "Wow, that's an amazing deal. How is that real?" That should be your mental signal that you should go out and book that now- Mm-hmm ... because at some point too many people are gonna book it, or the airline will catch their mistake, or the airline will just realize, "You know what? We can probably get away with charging a significant amount of additional miles than what we're currently doing." They're going to do those things, whether we write about them or we send them to our premium members or somebody else writes about it or time just goes on. All of these workarounds are going to close at some point. You gotta get in, in it while the getting is good. Yeah, definitely. What's yours, one that got away? Mine is booking ANA business, uh, or first class using Virgin Atlantic Flying Club points. This was and somehow still is like the ultimate example of how valuable points can be and the number of influencers that we still see to this day talking about, "Oh, you can fly A&As the room for 52,500 points each way It's like, yeah, you can because that award rate still exists on paper, but in practice, that award space is borderline nonexistent. You might be able to find one, two dates across the entire 331-day calendar if you're very, very lucky to book that seat. But functionally, this deal does not exist at all because ANA has gotten so stingy with releasing award space, not just to Virgin Atlantic, but to basically every airline in the world. So yes, it is great that in theory you can book for 52,500 miles from LA or from Chicago for 60,000 miles in ANA's The Room business class or more flying first class, but finding those that are actually bookable, that doesn't really happen anymore. I think ironically, first class is maybe a little bit easier to book than even business class for, what, 72,500 miles in first class and a little bit more from, you know, Chicago and the East Coast, but that it's still pretty tough sledding. So I would say that this deal is functionally extinct. Yeah, definitely extinct on that one, especially if you wanna fly not alone. Yes. If you wanna book two passengers, you're not gonna be able to find ANA The Room, and that is still the number one social media influencer misdirection that i- is out there. Uh, so many influencers out there who are saying, you know, "Here's exactly how to use your Amex points. This is the deal that you're going to get," and it just doesn't work like that, unfortunately. Well, and, and you know, they'll point out, well, there's a transfer bonus available at the time, let's say, of 30% from American Express or Chase to Virgin Atlantic, so you can book one of the world's best business class seats to Japan for even less. You are just setting up people to transfer those points without knowing that that redemption is basically impossible now. It's, it's really, really frustrating. Okay, I think that's a good list. I'm glad we got to put everything on, uh, in the endangered species scale- This is- ... and give people an idea of- For science, yes. Yeah, this is all for science Yeah, this is very rigorous. The important work we're doing here on the podcast. Should we help a listener? Let's help a listener. Okay, Jennifer asks, Jennifer says, "Love the podcast. I've learned so much and laughed a lot, too." What podcast is she listening to? Not ours. Uh, "My question is about planning a beach vacation somewhere in the Caribbean. We're a family of five. I wanna try an all-inclusive resort, ideally using some type of points and miles or hotel free nights, but with five people, finding cheap flights matters, too. So does the flight first rule still apply here, or should I be finding resorts with award space that works for us first, or do I go full sicko and research a bunch of resorts, pick a handful that would work, and then wait for the flight deal to match up?" So Kyle, I think the gist of Jennifer's question here is when should you shirk the flights first rule? When should you consider flipping it on its head? I think when the accommodations are more important, that's when you start with that and then try to build backwards. So I l- really like Jennifer's idea of researching a handful of resorts, and then I would say then start looking at flights. See if that award space is there, and then pull the trigger on both at basically the same time. Book your hotel, book your flights, and then move on. If you can't find anything that works, yeah, you know, research a handful and then wait for the right deal to pop up, or set some Google Flights price alerts to, you know, Antigua and, uh, Bermuda and Aruba and wherever else is on your radar, and so that when that alert comes in, you're ready to go. Double-check that however you're trying to book your hotel is still gonna work, especially if you're trying to book using points. That, it's kind of the flight first rule with a little bit of a tweak, I think. Uh, I think it's always important to scope out the flights even if you wind up being driven by the accommodations first. Yeah. I think that's helpful for Jennifer. Uh, Katie asks us, and we have time for one more, so I'm gonna squeeze in another question here. "If you get a credit card with an annual fee in order to earn the welcome bonus, can you later downgrade to a no-fee card and still keep the earned bonus?" That's Katie's first question. I'll get to her second question in a second. But Kyle, if you downgrade your card after you earn the bonus, do you keep the points and miles? Yes, uh, with a very important caveat that some banks are big, big sticklers about this, notably American Express. So the thing to do would be, let's say you open an American Express Platinum card or an Amex Gold card, and you earn that bonus, and then the annual fee comes due. You're like, "Well, I don't really wanna pay this for another year." What you do is you actually wait until after that fee hits your account, and you pay it, and then you message American Express and you say, "Hey, I wanna downgrade to a cheaper annual fee option, a no annual fee option," whatever, whatever you can. Um, then they'll prorate your annual fee. So if you, you know, you cancel within a couple of weeks, you're gonna pay a f- tiny, tiny fraction of whatever that annual fee is. The other hitch there is that you need to still have at least one card open that earns those points, no matter which bank you're dealing with here. Because if you only have, you know, one Chase Ultimate Rewards card and then you downgrade to a Chase Freedom Flex, which without a Chase Sapphire card in your wallet doesn't actually earn Chase Ultimate Rewards points, you, you don't have points anymore until you open another card at least. So you need to be strategic about this, um, and you do really need to be careful because Amex in particular will claw back bonus points if you cancel too soon. Yeah. In the case of airline miles or hotel points, once those points are in your account, they really don't have a mechanism to go get those back. So those ones you're pretty safe on, but yeah, be careful with the credit card ones. Uh, Katie's second question if... is, uh, for people who are very close listeners to the show, if you listen to our credits, um, she asks, "Are Sylvia Thomas and Kyle Thomas related? I always wonder when I hear their names during the podcast credits." Sylvia is our producer, and Kyle Thomas is our video editor for this podcast. Um, they both have the same last name, but they are not related. It is a rule, however, on this podcast you either have to be a Kyle or a Thomas to work on this show. Did you know that? Where, how do you fit in? That makes me endangered. That's what that makes me. I don't fit in, Kyle. All right, if you want us to answer your question on the podcast or if you have any feedback for us, hit us up at podcast@thriftytraveler.com. We might feature your question on next week's show. To close the show, as always, we go on the spot, and I get to put Kyle on the spot this week. You ready? Don't hit me with another gatekept travel hack. I'm, I'm out. Kyle, if you could pull one flight deal or travel hack back behind the gate, back inside the gate, what would it be? Is there one deal that got too popular, uh, that the deal died or maybe people got too into it as a travel hack or a flight deal? Um, what would you un-gatekeep if you could? What do you wish you still had for yourself? Well, first of all, I, I just wouldn't do that, but if I had to, gun to my head, it would probably be a redemption that honestly probably should have been on our list of endangered or too-good-to-last, which is flying Iberia business class from the US to Madrid or vice versa for as low as 40,500 Avios each way. Because despite the fact that Iberia has added a lot of additional US and Canadian cities to its map, these have gotten a lot harder to book. And, you know, there's always gonna be a piece of it as, is it just the airlines deciding they don't need to do this, or is awareness just too high and demand is too high for these things, booking using points, and people are, are beating you to it? This is always on that list of anytime an influencer posts about this, anytime there's a roundup of the best ways to get to Europe in business class, this is almost always number one. And, you know, having done it a couple of times, it is an amazing deal, and I think Iberia business class is an awesome experience, but when you can book for as low as 40,000 basically 40,000 miles each way, it makes it that much better. Yeah. Anything round trip for less than 100,000 miles or for two one-way for less than 100,000 miles is pretty phenomenal. Really good call there. All right. Thank you so much for listening to Thrifty Traveler podcast. Rate us five stars on your podcast platform of choice. Like and subscribe to the show on YouTube. Send this episode to someone you know who needs a vacation. And if you have feedback for us, send me a note at podcast@thriftytraveler.com. I'd love to hear from you there. Kyle, tell us about the team. This episode was produced by your favorite host, who is going to be arrested on his next flight for his personal pre-departure beverage, Gunner Olsen. It was produced and edited by Sylvia Thomas and edited by Kyle Thomas, who are not related. Our theme music is by Benjamin Tissot. See you next week. See ya