Sure, you can earn and redeem SkyMiles and Rapid Rewards points to your heart’s content. We won’t stop you. But it’s the next level of points and miles programs that help you save even more and turn regular travelers into “sickos” like us. So the guys devote the show to spelling out five underrated airline mileage programs even everyday travelers can use to maximize their credit card points. Plus, a listener suggests a new nickname for fans of the show (there are dozens of you, we swear!) and Gunnar puts his all-time favorite airline programs on the Olympic podium.
Sure, you can earn and redeem SkyMiles and Rapid Rewards points to your heart’s content. We won’t stop you. But it’s the next level of points and miles programs that help you save even more and turn regular travelers into “sickos” like us. So the guys devote the show to spelling out five underrated airline mileage programs even everyday travelers can use to maximize their credit card points. Plus, a listener suggests a new nickname for fans of the show (there are dozens of you, we swear!) and Gunnar puts his all-time favorite airline programs on the Olympic podium.
00:00 - Our “gateway drug” into points & miles
01:55 - TG welcomes us back to the show from snowy Niseko, Japan
03:45 - What airline programs are actually getting better?
06:50 - And which are overrated?
11:10 - A word from our sponsor: Sign up for our Extra Mile Newsletter
11:45 - Framing a discussion on top five “underrated” airline programs
15:10 - #1: Avios … but maybe not the one you’re thinking of
23:20 - #2: A newcomer full of sweet spots
32:05 - #3: Another quirky Japanese program loaded with value
40:10 - #4: The popular SkyTeam program that’s not rated high enough
47:30 - #5: The U.S. airline with the best miles
55:25 - Listener Question: “Thrifties” & changing loyalty numbers on bookings
59:50 - On the Spot: What’s your airline mileage program podium
Produced and edited by Sylvia Thomas
Video editing by Kyle Thomas
Show music: “All That” by Benjamin Tissot
Yo, welcome to the show. I am Gunner along with Kyle here, and today we wanted to shout out airline programs that we think every traveler should know about. Uh, even if you've never flown these airlines or you've never planned to fly these airlines, I think like a lot of travelers, Kyle, I kind of started out just earning and burning delta sky miles and rapid rewards and these very simple programs.
And then it was once I got a level deeper that I realized what was actually possible in points and miles. So I wanna ask you, I wanna find something out. What is, what was your gateway drug in points and miles? What kind of got you hooked?
I think it, it has to be two things. It has to be a good deal, something you didn't realize you could do, but then it also has to be a great experience.
So for me, that was the first big business class redemption that my wife and I took for our honeymoon to Bali flying EVA air business class, which is one of my absolute favorite. Experiences ever in my life, even almost 10 years later now, and booking that from Chicago to Taipei and then down to Indonesia for, I think at the time it was like 78,000 Avianca life Miles, despite having never flown the Columbian airline.
Avianca, at least at the time was just, it was like. Getting on that flight having the most amazing and funniest experience because we just so happened to book the Hello Kitty flight that EVA air operates on a couple of routes for 15 hours. And you know, arriving after 24 hours of travel and being a human being and knowing that we did this using points was like, that's it.
That's the rest of my life. I need to figure out how to do this more.
Yeah. All thanks to Avianca and Airline. You may never fly and have never flown. Right. That's awesome. All right. Today on the show, we're going through all of the most underrated points and miles programs that every US traveler should know about all that and more.
This is TG checking in from Niseko. Welcome back to the 13 Trialer podcast.
Okay, welcoming you back to the show this week was TG who was snowboarding at Niseko Resort on the island of Hokkaido in Japan, where of course in his video it was firing. It was snowing so hard. It was nuking, it was chunking, whatever you wanna say. It looked so good there, tg. It's been the absolute best winter in the history of Necco and, uh, I'm really, really sad that I'm not there this year.
I've had some friends cruelly message me their videos of them, uh, skiing and snowboarding through just effortless, perfect powder. And I. I'm really sad I didn't get there this year.
I, I don't know what stranger you using words like nuking for snow or just offhandedly referring to Niko, like, it's just common knowledge to everybody.
Necco is the big ski resort area in Hokkaido in northern Japan where, I mean, how many inches of snow have they gotten this year? How many feet is probably the better
metric? Yeah. I mean, so many feet. They'll, they'll probably get close to a thousand inches of snow, uh, this year. I think they're probably gonna break their own record again this year.
It's been, it has not stopped like a foot a night for a few weeks there it looked like. So, uh, yeah. Really happy for you, tg. But as you can see, I'm not that happy for you.
Mostly jealous.
Yeah, mostly jealous. Um, okay, let's, we're gonna get into some of the most underrated programs you should know about, but I wanted to use this something hot and something cold segment to see kind of who's up and who's down in travel rewards right now.
Before we get into the big discussion, so let's start with something hot. What airline programs are getting better? What are you watching closely as airline programs that are improving?
This is, this is both a hard and easy question to answer because the general trend line for every airline program over time is that they all get worse.
They very, very rarely actually get better. And so while I think it might seem counterintuitive even, um, foolish to say this, I think one of the few that is actually getting better is delta sky miles. I think delta sky miles are better in 2026 than they were a year ago, let alone several years ago. You know, we wrote a story in I think 2023 about the sad state of delta sky miles that every business class flight you could ever hope to look at was through the roof and even cheap economy redemptions in sky miles, flash sales to get down to Mexico for under 15,000, even sometimes under 10,000 sky miles round trip, or to Europe for 30,000 sky miles, round trip or less.
Those had all disappeared and all of that has really come back. And so I think it's. It's partially that Delta Sky Miles are actually getting better, that maybe Delta has realized that they need to throw those of us in Delta hubs who have those sky miles cards or have Amex points that we can, if we want to transfer to Delta, that they need to throw us a bone and, and actually, you know, offer some good deals occasionally.
But it may be more so that Delta is maybe getting a little bit better while almost everybody else is getting worse. Yeah,
yeah.
You know, they are, to quote you nuking their award, award charts left and right and Delta is kind of staying the course it seems like.
Yeah, yeah. Definitely. It's, we've talked about this a lot on this show, but I think the Sky Miles program is getting more useful, but it started from a place where most travelers were looking at.
You know, 400,000 skymile redemptions in Delta one and they just wrote it off and, you know, came up with the term sky pesos and then all of a sudden it was a decade of people saying skymile are worthless. And uh, if you're paying attention, that's not actually the case anymore.
No. And look, you're still gonna see those 400,000 Yeah.
Sky miles redemptions in in business class to Europe. You might even see it for 400,000 sky miles round trip in economy. But there are more deals that are better than we've seen in at least a couple of years, if not since pre pandemic. And I think that's worth calling out. That may delta Sky Miles should not be the be all end all for anyone.
You need it as a piece of a strategy. But for the first time in a while, it feels like we can recommend SkyMiles are worth your attention, you should be paying attention to this. And it feels like it may only get better that program over the course of 2026 and hopefully beyond.
Yeah. I'll give a, an honorable mention to American two, who is definitely.
Made some of their redemptions better, uh, along with some really good tech. Their website makes it really easy to search for one World Awards. Uh, and, you know, it's just a, a good way to book, uh, like Delta Sky Miles from your home, airport, whatever that airport might be. So, um, uh, honorable mention to American as another program that's getting better.
Um, like our guy TG in Necco. Let's see who's heading downhill, Kyle. Which airline programs are overrated? Which one is the most overrated? In your opinion,
how happy were you with yourself when you came up with that punt?
I'm giddy, I'm kidding.
You've made up for how sad TG TG made you when you first saw that video.
I. I can't believe I'm saying this because I think it has been a fan favorite for at least the last five years. I think Air Canada, Aeroplan has really started to disappoint me for if for no other reason than the fact that they're just clearly not getting the award space, the flights that you can actually book with your points from, you know, the now four dozen plus airline partners that they have.
So, you know, I used to look at. Redeeming Air Canada, Aeroplan Miles to try to fly united, to try to fly EVA air, to try to fly Turkish and a handful of others because they, in many cases, charged the best mixture of low award rates, the number of miles that you need, and at least reasonable taxes and fees.
But we're just not seeing as many of those flights actually bookable through Air Canada anymore to Taipei and Southeast Asia, over to Europe and back, wherever, even within the United States, flying an economy, United redemption, those have gotten much harder to find. So until that changes, I'm kind of down on Aeroplan and I, I wouldn't have said that even a year ago.
Yeah. Uh, my nomination in this category is, is kind of similar. A, a once darling, maybe still a darling for a lot of people, but I think. Virgin is kind of trending towards being overrated at this point. Um, I think the, the Delta one sweet spot where formerly you could book a Delta one seat for 50,000 virgin points one way, now it's up to 60,000.
But that, that sweet spot is essentially gone. We see that maybe once a year. Uh, it's hard to find those seats almost ever. Um, you know, booking a NA is harder than ever as well. Um, flying Blue Air France and Klum flying Blue tends to beat them on award prices more often than not. Um. For like some of those short haul Delta bookings, the taxes and fees are too high to fly Virgin itself to London anymore.
Uh, and you know, I think it's still great. It's still valuable. It's still like the best way it is now. The best way to book latam, for instance. Um, but I just don't think it's the best in their category. They're not, they're not the sky team darling that they once were.
Yeah, I mean one of the first stories that I wrote for, for us here when I started back in 2018 and early 2019 was save your Sky Miles book Delta flights through Virgin Atlantic instead, because of everything you talked about, it was always the cheapest way to book a Delta flight.
Whether it's that, you know, business class redemption to Europe for 50,000 miles each way or even short and not so short Delta economy redemptions and bit by bit by bit. Virgin Atlantic has wiped everything out. So I think this is a really good shout. There still is value in Virgin Atlantic Flying Club Miles, especially because they transfer from all the big banks, and they probably often offer more transfer bonuses than any single airline program period.
Mm-hmm. And some of the biggest, you know, we've seen in the course of the last year a handful of 40% transfer bonuses, which means you need to transfer fewer points, but when they charge so much. It's just not worth it. And yeah, I mean, just over a year ago when you could book a Virgin Atlantic business Class C to London for as low as 29,000 points and $250 in taxes and fees, now that's, you know, 29,000 points and.
500 plus. It's just, it's not the same anymore.
Yeah. And I wanna be clear, this is an overrated discussion. This isn't, these Aeroplan and Virgin are not bad programs. You're not a dope for using them for logging onto Virgin or Aeroplan, although it's harder than ever to log onto those two websites too.
That, that's also why you're overrated because it takes me 15 minutes to get onto your website to search for awards. Um, but I think, you know, this is a useful discussion just to see kind of whose arrows up, whose arrows down in. Airline programs right now. Alright, let's get into our discussion on all the underrated airline programs.
But first, we're gonna take a quick break.
We're going the extra mile on some valuable airline programs that you may or may not have used. But if you wanna go the extra mile daily, there's a new newsletter that you should be getting in your inbox. It's called The Extra Mile Every Weekday Morning. Now, Monday through Friday, we're putting together a must read digest of everything you need to get caught up in one Easy to read newsletter.
It's got travel news, it's got tips and tricks. It's got our analysis, it's got the latest deals, including a special deal of the day. And of course, it's got plenty of snark and irreverence, maybe even more than Gunner and I have. Sign up and get it in your inbox every weekday morning. You can sign up now@thriftytraveler.com slash extra mile.
All right, back to the show.
Okay, we're back and it's the extra mile. We're talking about five underrated loyalty programs that you should know about. Kyle, can you frame this discussion up for us? Like what are we actually looking at here? What does underrated mean?
It's in the ILE beholder, right? So there's gonna be some things here that you've certainly heard of, probably that you've used if you're, you know, not just dipping your toe into the world of points and miles as you're listening to this, but the goal is to.
Just expand your mind about what's possible. And so, you know, we, we talked a lot in a great episode, one of our first episodes, the 10 Commandments of Points and Miles to, to really get people started in this. And I think everybody gets to a point where they look at, you know, the dozens if not hundreds of airline programs.
And then you learn that you can book a dozen, two dozen or more different airlines with one airlines mileage program. And then you start to be like, there are so many possibilities here. How do I figure this out? So the point of this episode is to show you five different airline programs that have a lot of value because while there might be dozens of different airline programs, there really are.
I mean, from my perspective, probably about 10 that are really worth your attention for, for any given flight that you're booking. There are some edge cases, but that's not what we're gonna talk about. We're gonna talk about five different airline programs where there is consistent high value that is worth transferring points that you already have to an airline.
Like, I'm not gonna name it, we're gonna get into it, right? Yeah. Um, but, but I mean, most importantly, there, there are, there are two really key concepts here that all of these five have in common. One is that you can use these five airline programs to book flights for fewer miles, whether you're flying domestically within the United States, down to the Caribbean, over to Hawaii, to Europe or Asia.
Near home or abroad. These are the airlines that tend to charge the fewer miles than most. And probably more importantly, while you may never actually fly these airlines, they are incredibly easy miles to earn because you can transfer them from the credit card points that you hopefully have from the big banks, like American Express, chase Capital One City, maybe even built.
But these are points that are easy to earn. So we're not gonna be talking about, you know, some. Off the wall program like Lufthansa miles and more, which may charge low rates, but those miles are, are basically impossible to earn for everyday Americans because they don't, they're not a transfer partner of one of those big banks.
Yeah, and I think crucially, maybe this doesn't need to be said, but the, all these airline programs are free to sign up for, so there's no reason why you shouldn't, after hearing our list, go ahead and sign up for these. Uh, as and as long as you have the transferable points where you can actually send points to the programs you can use, these Americans are allowed to use these.
None of this is illegal, you know, even though it feels like you're getting away with something because of how cheap that you're booking some of these flights for. So, um, we have, uh, our old episode, the 10 Commandments of Points and Miles, which touches on a lot of this and a lot of kinda, um. I guess some of the first steps you should take and some of the first things you should think about before getting into transferable points in miles.
But, um, I think this is a really good list that you've started with. So why don't you hit me with the first one.
Number one is, was my number one choice in our, uh, airline program draft, which I lost according to the voters. So maybe this shouldn't be number one, but number one on this list is Finnair.
Avios. Really importantly. Finnair Avios is part of this broader, really unique family of airlines that use Avios as miles. There's Finnair, there's British Airways, there's Iberia, there's Air Lingus, and there's Qatar Airways. And unlike every other airline program in the world, you can transfer miles from one of these to the other.
You can transfer Avios from British Airways to Finnair and vice versa. And same goes for Qatar Airways and down the list of all those five. But Finnair is the one that I tend to use and look at the most because. Generally speaking has the lowest redemption rates that you can find to book a flight, whether you're trying to fly Fin Air itself, but especially, you know, for us Americans who are either trying to get to Europe or just trying to fly somewhere within the United States or, or to the Caribbean or, or Hawaii, um, the, the lowest rates to fly, both American and Alaska Airlines as well.
So there are just some tremendous deals here if you're willing to put in some extra work. And that's what this is all about.
Yeah, I, I mean, you don't have to tell me how great Finnair is. I also, this might come up a few times in this discussion, but I really like their website. I, I think this, this makes such a big difference to me when I'm searching for awards is if your website is a nightmare to use.
Sometimes I'm just a little scared off by it, but Finnair's website is very clean and very easy, so an endorsement for me there. Um. Tell people what they can do with Finnair Avios, we've,
we've got a really good list. Um, you've done this yourself Flying Finnair business class from anywhere in the United States, uh, to Helsinki for 62,500 avios each way.
You can also connect onward within Northern Europe, so fly from Dallas to Helsinki to, you know, Scandinavia better than I do. Gimme an airport,
Bergen,
Bergen, Oslo, wherever, anywhere in that region for, again, still just 62,500 avios each way. The, the ones that I look at the most are flying American or Alaska.
So you can fly one way from anywhere in the United States as long as they have service on either of those two US airlines. Two, anywhere in Hawaii for 13,500 miles each way, even when Alaska itself is charging 25,000 Alaska Atmos rewards or more, or American is charging 40,000 advantage miles each way.
So this is a stellar way to book those trips to Hawaii for fewer miles with the transferable points that you have, and really importantly, getting ahead of myself here. These are so, so easy to earn because you can transfer Capital one miles directly to Fin Air, but because of that interconnectivity between all these Avio Airlines, you can also transfer MX or Chase or Capital One points to British Airways and then kick them over to Fin Air.
So there's just so many possibilities here.
I think if stopping you right there, I think Finnair and the AOS program in general are kind of number one in the power rankings of, I didn't even know I could have these points. And you might like, right, because of all the transfer possibilities and transferring to British Airways or Iberia Qatar and then moving them over to Fin Air.
But I mean, you might be sitting on Fin Air Avios and not even know about it.
And that's the thing. That's why these things are important and why we're doing this is because this, this can go so much further beyond just, I've got Delta Sky miles, I've got United Miles. I want to use the program that's most familiar and comfortable to me.
And if you're willing to listen to this podcast, that means you should be willing to take the next step and try to figure out how to use one of these workarounds to book a flight for less. One of the craziest ones that. St. Peter on our team, um, finding award deals for our Thrifty Traveler Premium member stumbled on a couple of weeks ago, is that not only can you fly, um, American Airlines or Alaska one way in economy to Hawaii for 13,500 miles, but because.
Hawaiian is now technically part of Alaska Airlines. You can book a one-way flight in Hawaiian Airlines new first class suites from Seattle to Honolulu for just 25,500 Finn Air Avios each way. That is far any, in a way, not just the best way to get to Hawaii, but also the cheapest way to do this using miles.
It's an incredible deal.
Yeah, I booked that same flight for this coming march, uh, with Alaska Atmos, and it was 40,000. I thought it was the steal of the century, so Peter ruined my day.
Loser.
Yeah.
Uh, anyway, moving on. Um, one ways American flies so many flights more than any other airline, uh, to the Caribbean and back.
You can book those using Finn Air Avios for 15,000 avios each way. Uh, you may find a better deal with advantage, but sometimes American itself is charging a lot more for those. So being able to book those, this is something my wife and I did ourselves to get home from Antigua, uh, from our trip last fall.
It was an amazing deal. Great way to get there. Cafe Pacific Business class for 85,000 miles each way. And finally, uh, latam business class to basically anywhere even in the far reaches of South America. So Sao Paulo, Santiago de Chile, um, Buenos Ira for between seventy four thousand five hundred and seventy five thousand five hundred avios each way.
Not the cheapest way, but really importantly, remember, not only can you transfer from basically any. Transferable credit Card point currency, chase, American Express ca, capital One to one of these AO Airlines. But one of these AO Airlines almost always has some kind of a transfer bonus going, and we see those go from 20 to 30 and occasionally 40%.
So if you have a 40% bonus or a 30% bonus, that 62,500 point um, fin Air Business class redemption. You need to send less than 50,000 points to get the miles that you need to actually book that. That's an incredible deal.
Yeah, it's pretty amazing. Okay. Any other kind of tips or words of warning for using Fin Airo?
Anything else anybody should be aware of?
I mean, you mentioned that finnair's website is generally speaking quite good. There's a really important exception here, which is that, at least as we're talking right now, you cannot book online using Finn Air Avios Awards, flying American Airlines, Alaska Airlines, or latam, which means you need to, um, issue your millennial tendencies and actually pick up the phone.
Or better yet, I've had great experience chatting online through finnair, so you can just start a chat with the online agent. Ask that you need to book an award ticket, they'll route you to, um, an actual human representative. It can take an hour, sometimes more, but if you're at work and you can just have that tab open and wait to hear the sound that somebody is there to help you, it's a great way to get that done quickly without picking up the phone and spending an hour or more on hold.
Yeah, their agents are also great. This is when I flew Finnair business class, I had to add my lap infant, which was supposed to cost, uh, 10% of the cash value of the ticket. But the online chat fin air agent just made me pay the taxes and fees and that was it. So whoever that great man was who saved me a thousand dollars, so I'll never forget you, but I can't promise you you're gonna have that experience with the thin air chat.
But they're very helpful. Um, and their chat function is also very slick, very easy.
Tell 'em, you know, gunner and they'll either charge you less than 10% of the cash price or maybe a hundred percent of the cash price
promo code gunner at checkout for absolutely nothing off your fare. They might even charge you the thousand dollars that they let me skate on.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna message Jared when we're done and ask him to create promo code Gunner for a Thrifty Traveler premium.
It'll add $15 to annual subscription. Yep. Alright. What's next, Kyle? What, what other airlines are airline programs are underrated that people should know about?
I mean, if you're listening to this podcast or you've been listening, it's certainly not underrated.
But I just can't say enough about Japan Airlines and its mileage bank. We're talking about it a lot because for years, these miles were impossible to earn for everyday Americans, and therefore there's really no need to pay attention to it. But over the course of Less Than a Year Built, and then Capital One has added Japan Airlines as a transfer partner, which means you can pretty easily earn these miles.
And that just set off a wave of research in our team, and we just discovered how amazing the deals are within this program, including what I consider the single best sweet spot in the world of points and miles that I just, I can't believe it's possible to do some of the things that you can do with this program.
Yeah. Tell me about them. I mean, this is really the, the, the sweetest spot of Jaw is, is just all these redemptions are, are. Kind of, uh, eye-opening to us. I mean, these are things we never thought possible.
I mean, let's start with flying Japan Airlines itself, which I think would be most people's natural entry point.
They have pretty good redemption rates for economy, but probably more importantly for business class. So you can book a one-way flight Flying Japan Airlines business class for as low as 55,000 miles each way. And a about $200 in taxes and fees, give or take. That itself is, is quite good. Finding awards that are actually bookable at that ultra low rate is pretty tough.
You have to be booking basically 12 months, 12 full months in advance in order to find anything around that rape. Most importantly, Japan Airlines also sells those business class seats at higher rates that you just won't find seats at all through partner programs like American Advantage Miles and the other options that you might have already heard about trying to fly Japan Airlines business class.
So it is, while it's hard to find flights for that rock bottom 55,000 miles each way, right, it's much easier to see through gel and only through gel, 75,000. 80,000 miles each way, in some cases closer to a hundred thousand miles that you just are not possible to book period using another airlines mileage program.
So it's a, it's a great option if you wanna have a little bit more flexibility and are willing to use more miles in order to book that live flat seat to Tokyo.
Yeah, I mean, if you wanna get that lowest rate, you're, you're gonna have to book way, way in advance. But for most people, I know that that's, that's hard to wrap their mind around.
It's hard to schedule out. I mean, right now you're looking at next winter already if you want to get some of those lowest rates. Um, but the ability to, you know, throw out a few miles more to get that availability is, uh, what's so, so impressive here. And it makes the program definitely worth having some points in.
Um. It's not just j you can book lots of other airlines using this program.
Yeah, and, and not just, most airlines are pretty much limited to just flying the partner airlines that they have in their alliance. So Japan Airlines is part of the One World Alliance alongside American and Alaska and British Airways and Iberia and about a dozen other airlines.
But Japan Airlines also has partnerships that allow you to use gel miles to book Emirates and JetBlue and latam and a handful of others. So there's just so much here, and this is where we get to the, the best sweet spot of all, most airlines, if you book a one way and it's 60,000 miles, if you book that same route, round trip, it's 120,000 miles.
They take each segment, they total up what you charge, and you add 'em together. Japan Airlines has this unbelievable quirk where if you're booking round trip. They measure the total distance of your trip and then charge one amount for that. So to make that real. There's that 60,000 Japan Airlines charges 60,000 miles for most one-way flights from the United States to Europe.
It's based upon the distance of that flight
in business.
In business class, right? Yeah. If you book that round trip, it's not 120,000 miles, it's 85,000 miles because of the sum of those two flights within one. It's, it's absolutely incredible. You can do this with Iberia, you can do this with American Airlines, business class to Europe.
You can even do it down to South America. You can utilize this, this, if you're willing to book round trip over to Asia, wherever the possibilities are, are absolutely endless. You can even do this in economy. I mean, it works no matter what you're booking. So just as an example, to be able to book, um, a round trip flight in American Airlines from the United States, uh, down to the Caribbean and back in economy for 15,000 miles.
When most runways would cost you 15,000 miles is is an incredible deal to be able to do that round trip. But the best one of all is Emirates business class has gotten exorbitantly expensive to book. At the very least, you would pay 108,000 miles through Emirates round trip and close to a thousand dollars in taxes and fees.
If you can find the award space, the flights that are actually bookable, which I wanna preface very difficult to do these days, but if you can do it, if you're extremely flexible, you can book that through Japan Airlines for 85,000 miles round trip and $250 or so in taxes and fees. You're saving almost $800 in taxes and fees and more than 20,000 miles by using this workaround.
I hope Emirates is not listening to this show. Uh, I hope they never find out about this. This is pretty, pretty spectacular. This is definitely by far the best way. Probably the only palatable way to book Emirates business class anymore is through Japan Airlines and Got you. Just gotta love Japan Airlines math.
You know, we, I've, I've chatted them a little bit for, uh, their. Transfer ratio, which is very annoying. The 1000 capital one points gets you 750 J miles. But I love the math of, uh, 60,000 times two equals 85,000. That's my kind of math baby. I love it.
That is a journalist math right there.
Yeah.
We love to see it.
Um, any other tips or words of warning for Japan Airlines? Is it, is it all too good to be true? Please tell me it's not
there. There are just really important things to keep in mind. You said at the top of the show that people should consider signing up for all of these airline mileage programs, Japan Airlines.
Do it right now because Japan Airlines has this strange quirk where you can't redeem miles when you just set up an account. Fortunately, they've made some deals with both, um, built and Capital One, the two major banks that are transfer partners that allow you to send built rewards or Capital One miles to Japan Airlines so that that date ranges about seven days after creating your account.
But just do it now. Uh, don't forget it. Don't wait until you see a great deal in your inbox or discover something and then realize you don't actually have a Japan Airlines mileage bank account. Set it up now. Don't worry about that counter. Um, really importantly, you can only book for direct relatives using Japan Airlines Miles.
So, uh, you know, spouses, kids, parents, grandparents, they spell it all out on their website, and we do as well on ours about exactly what family relations count, but it's, it's pretty restrictive. Um, so if you're trying to book a trip with a friend, they're gonna need their own Japan Airlines mileage account and balance to book that trip for themselves.
Um, and then, you know, really importantly, you touched on this. Built transfers one-to-one to Japan Airlines. Capital One has this less than one-to-one, which is annoying and means you need to transfer more Capital One miles to Japan Airlines to get those 85,000 miles you need for a round trip. In business class.
Um, yeah, we can't sing Japan Airlines Mileage Bank. Um. Praise is enough. It's just been since we've started digging into it, because your points can actually transfer there.
Now as a US traveler, it's uh, it's been spectacular. We can't wait to use it even more. Is it the best mileage program of the Japanese airlines?
It's close. We're not going far for number three. It's a and a mileage club, which I still think is just incredibly underrated. Yeah, it has a lot of the same quirks as Japan Airlines.
That's not a coincidence. I would say if it's not the single best airline program within the Star Alliance, it's pretty close. Certainly number two. Um, but it, it's, it's up there. And I think really importantly, while a NA has raised award rates on many flights within the last year or so, it's also gotten even better within the last year or so because last spring for, for years, for decades.
A, a required you when redeeming miles you had to book a round trip, you could not book one way separately. And last year that changed, which just makes it so much easier to use a NA miles to book a a one way to Europe or to Asia and then use another program to get back if you can't find the award space for that round trip flight.
So it just makes it so much more usable in, in ways that it wasn't before.
Yeah, I think a NA mileage club has been, you know, it's, it's always a booking option in our thrifty Traveler premium deals. When we send out these star alliance, you know, United's big worldwide alliance, um, when we send out these deals for business class, there's always the option to book with a and a mileage club and you just can't believe how low the rates were.
Uh, it when flying round trip, you know, a hundred thousand points round trip to get to Europe, which has now become, you know, 50000.1 ways, which is just, I, we love that added flexibility. Um. To book all of those. But you know, I think because of the one-way bookings, this has now become a must have. Uh, what are some other good redemptions that you like on a NA mileage club?
Again, let's, let's start with a NA itself. Flying to and from Tokyo. You can book business class during the low season. So winter some parts of spring, actually some parts of summer and, and a good chunk of the fall for as low as 50,000 miles each way. Or in a a's first class cabins for 75,000 miles each way.
It is still very difficult to find award space really in either cabin, but if you can make it work, if you're extremely flexible, this is the cheapest way to do it. Still today, uh, especially in business class, in the, in the regular season and on our site and on a NA site, they spell out the exact dates of what's low, what's regular, what's high season.
But during the regular season, it's not that much more to fly business class. Instead of 50,000 miles, it's 52,500 each way. And in first class it goes from 75,000 miles to 85,000 miles. And then during the peak season, so cherry blossoms, um, around the holidays, a handful of other dates, it's, it's just not even worth mentioning.
It's exorbitantly expensive, especially in first class, but there are so many great star lines, airlines that you can book using a and a miles, including United. Turkish airlines, tap Air, Portugal. I mean, we could go on and on, but a NA charges, in many cases, the absolute lowest rates for those redemptions, which is why you care about these kinds of workarounds.
None better than being able to fly one way in business class between the United States and Europe for just 50,000 miles each way.
Yeah. It's, it quickly became one of the best redemptions in all of Europe travel, and it's all thanks to a Japanese mileage program once again. Um, you know, you said it's similar to JA and some of its quirks.
What are some of those?
You can only, uh, exactly the same restriction on who you can book for, has to be a direct family member. Again, Japan or a a NA spells out exactly who is a direct family member and who qualifies. Don't, don't test your luck with this and, and try to try to claim that your, your best friend is your cousin or your maternal grandmother twice removed or something like that.
Just don't, don't try it. Just honor the rules. Um, you'll, while there are so many airlines that you can book using a NA miles, there are some that you're gonna wanna avoid because some of them, based upon which airline you're actually flying, you get hit with some nasty surcharges. So, flying, for example, Lufthansa.
Swiss Austrian Airlines and other airlines in that Lufthansa group of, you know, almost half a dozen carriers, you get hit with, uh, about $2,000 in taxes and fees on a round trip business class award ticket. It's just not worth it. It doesn't matter that that it, that same business class award ticket only costs you a hundred thousand miles.
That's way too much money to pay. You're better off using a different airline program. And then maybe most importantly, a NA does not allow you to book within the last four days of departure. You have to book at least 97 hours in advance, which most normal human beings do. But you know, especially for those situations like what you talk about all the time where you book something in economy or you book something with a connection, but you're trying to rebook your trip, the best way to do that is often last minute.
And that means that a and a isn't an option here.
Yeah. Um. Who can earn a NA mileage club miles Where? Where can you transfer them in from?
One and only American Express membership rewards. So if you've got an Amex Gold card for dining or an Amex Platinum card for booking your flights in the perks, you can transfer those points to a NA.
Maybe the most important quirk of all with this is that unlike virtually every other airline and credit card transfer partner we talk about, these transfers are not instant. It takes somewhere between 36 and 48 hours from the moment you hit transfer in your American Express account for those miles to show up in your a NA mileage club account, which is tough.
You know, if you find a deal and the award space disappears, you're outta luck because you need to wait for those miles to hit your account. That said, we almost always say. Never transfer credit card points to an airline without a purpose, without a redemption of mine. Don't do it speculatively. If that deal disappears or the award chart changes or something, your SOL because your miles are stuck in that airline account.
Because of this, because of how many great deals there are with a NA 50,000 miles each way to Europe, 65,000 miles each way to South Africa, uh, 60,000 miles roundtrip to Australia and economy, 68,000 miles each way to fly Vietnam Airlines business class from San Francisco to Ho Chi Minh in Vietnam. I think it's worth it.
You have so many options, and because of that. Lag time of how long it takes for those miles to hit your account. I think as long as you have a good amount of American Express points, it could be worth transferring them ahead of time to a NA so that you have, for example, a hundred thousand a NA miles ready to use for that great business class redemption once it pops up.
Yeah. Our, our friend and coworker Peter, uh, who. Sends you all of your, uh, best business class award deals to Thrifty Traveler Premium. He, for a long time, has told me that he always keeps a hundred thousand a and a miles in his account. They, you know, they expire in three years and there's no way to reset it.
But he's making the bet that, especially someone like him who's looking at award space 24 7, uh, that he was gonna be able to find a way to use a hundred thousand a NA, uh, miles in, in three years. And he always does, but he always keeps that coffer full just because, you know, he wants those points there.
He doesn't want to have to wait the 36 to 48 hours for the transfer when, you know deals are hot. Um, but he says he never has a hard time using those
follow St. Peter's advice. Always, always, always. He'll, he'll never lead you astray.
Um, okay. Anything else on a and a mileage club?
No, let's move on.
Alright.
Um, what is your next one? What is another underrated airline program that everybody should know about?
I'm kind of cheating.
That's okay.
But I think no matter how highly rated this program is, it's not. Rated high enough, air France, KLM, flying blue for all of the reasons that we already touched on earlier and more.
It's, it's one of the most versatile, valuable, and easy to earn mileage programs on the planet with so many great ways to redeem those miles.
Yeah, before, I mean the, the redemptions are, it's like a silly list of amazing stuff, a murderer's row of sweet redemptions, but talk about how you can earn Air France, KLM, flying blue miles,
anything, any, any credit card that you have.
It probably even Diners Club. Does anybody have that anymore? I dunno. Um, all of the major banks and many of the smaller ones, American Express, chase Capital One, Citi Built Wells Fargo, probably others that I'm forgetting, they all transferred directly to Air France at least on a one-to-one basis. So 10,000 points in any of those programs gets you 10,000 flying blue miles and maybe more importantly.
Quite often we see transfer bonuses of 20% to 30% from, from all of those in that list. So it's quite, quite easy to get the air France miles you need for a, as you said, a murderous row of great redemptions.
Yeah, I, so for instance, to use these miles, which like you said, I'm, I'm like earning accidentally just all the time because of how easy it is to transfer them in.
Um. I tend to use them a lot on Delta flights. We're we're stuck here in Minneapolis where we are hub captives and Delta gets to charge whatever it wants for flights. So I'm often skipping sky miles and going straight to Air France or KLMs website to search for my Delta flights. Tell me about what you can do with Delta with these miles.
Yeah. Those short haul Delta flights domestically within the United States are great. Even when delta may be charging like 20,000 sky miles, you can book for as low as 5,000 sky, uh, 5,000 Air France, KLM, flying blue miles, that same delta operated flight for a quarter or less of what Delta itself is charging.
Really importantly, for any Delta operated flight and, and really for any partner redemption using Air France, KLM flying blue miles to book a Sky team partner airline like Delta or China Airlines over in Taiwan and down the list, the longer the flight, the more miles you're gonna get charged. It's a little bit dynamic, it's a little bit unpredictable.
It's not like we know exactly what the distance of the flight is and therefore what it's gonna charge. But just keep in mind, the longer the flight, the more miles, the more air France, miles you're gonna need to redeem. But in many cases, almost every case, you're gonna save a boatload by checking and booking through Air France.
I, I use them all the time for those shorter Delta flights, whether it's, you know, going down to see family in, in Michigan or Chicago and, I mean, those flights are so cheap, it's unbelievable, especially compared to the sky miles rate. Um, and like you said, sometimes you're gonna log on to flying blue and you're gonna check the price, uh, especially when you're flying.
Air France or KLM themselves, and it's gonna look astronomical, almost sky miles esque in some of those cases. Like I've been, I've been charged, you know, 400,000 flying blue miles for a business class flight to Italy that I was looking at and, uh, obviously never, never, ever booked that. Um, but I think there are still some really good options, especially in the front of the plane.
What are some of those other front of the plane redemptions that you like with flying blue?
You're just trying to be a bougie boy and I'm not ready yet. Um, I wanna talk more about some Delta stuff. Oh. Uh, over to Hawaii and back as low as 32,000 miles round trip, or 16,000 each way from our home here in Minneapolis.
Flying the Delta nonstop from Minneapolis to Honolulu is almost always somewhere in the neighborhood of 150,000 sky miles round trip for a main cabin economy award. If you can find the award space. Through Air France, KLM flying blue instead. It's just 50,000 miles round trip. It's an incredible deal.
It's something that I've done both times that I've flown to Hawaii. It's, it's one of my personal favorite deals. You can also use this same work around for flights to Mexico, anywhere in Mexico, including Mexico City and Cancun and Cabo, as well as, you know, much of the Caribbean and Central America. On our trip to, uh, Costa Rica recently, we booked our flights back using, um.
Flying the delta nonstop from Liberia back to Minneapolis, Delta was charging something like 40,000 sky miles per person. We booked it for 18,500 a piece using Air France, KLM instead.
Yeah, those are also really, really good redemptions. Always start your search there. Um. My, my knees are getting cramped.
Can you take me to the front of the plane please?
All right, we're ready.
All right.
Important caveat, like many of the business class redemptions that we've talked about in this list, finding the award space you can actually book at these rates is tough. It has gotten tougher for flying Air France or KLM themselves to Paris or to am Amsterdam, but when you can find it, which we found for our premium members just last week, it's 60,000 miles each way.
Again, really importantly, not just 60,000 miles, but some pretty sizable taxes and fees, it's now up to 250 or so each way from the United States to Europe flying back. It's even more, I think it's more than $400 each way, but that can still be a decent deal, especially, especially if you're getting that 60,000 point redemption.
It's also far in away the cheapest way to book a Delta one seat to Europe or back because, and again, the longer the flight. The more miles you need. But if you can find the award space, it's as low as about 60,000 miles for those shortest flights from say, Boston to Lisbon. I think when we've seen Delta one award space bookable through Air France from Minneapolis or from Atlanta into somewhere in Europe, it tends to be in the 70, if not 80,000 territory.
But compared to the 300,000 delta sky miles that Delta itself is charging for those same flights. It's highway robbery.
Yeah. Also really good redemptions. I mean, last summer, for instance, for some of those Europe nonstops in business class, we saw those in peak summer get down to 60,000 round trip, and I think we suspect because of uh, some summer travel demand stuff that we might have a similar summer on our hands this year.
I really hope. Fingers crossed. I'm really, really hoping Kyle, any other redemptions to point out with Air France, KLM Flying blue.
Last one, China Airlines business class, uh, from the United States to Taipei. This used to be really, really easy to book. It has gotten a lot harder in the last, I would say two years, but we have seen deals as low as 61,000 miles each way, which is a great way to fly for 14 plus hours.
It's cheapest again on those shortest flights, in this case from Vancouver to Taipei. But I think we sent Phoenix to Taipei for under 70,000 miles, maybe just over 70,000 miles each way. It's a, a phenomenal deal if you can make it work.
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, onto the last one. Um, what is your fifth underrated airline program that people should know about?
Kyle?
Remember how I was cheating on the last one a little bit. I'm, I'm really cheating on this one. Really, really cheating, but I'm also drawing on what you talked about earlier on American Advantage Miles, and I'm including this on our list, I think because not a lot of people love to fly American Airlines.
And I'm telling you right now, if you have written off American Advantage Miles because you don't like the airline itself, you are screwing up American Airlines. Miles are, in my opinion, the single most valuable airline mileage program of any US airline, and that includes Alaska. I think I just get, I find so many more great redemptions, great deals in both economy and in business class on American Airlines itself, but especially on American's, one world partner airlines than I do with Alaska or any other of the US airlines.
Yeah. I think one of the reasons why you and I both love this program so much is because, uh, they have an award chart and they actually stick to it. Uh, first, can you explain what an award chart is?
An award chart is the cheat sheet that determines how many miles you need to book a flight from point A to point B.
It says, okay, you're flying. In this case, from the United States to Europe, it's gonna cost 30,000 miles for economy. It's gonna cost 57,500 miles for a business class seat and for basically every other airline in the country, they say. We're gonna charge you what we wanna charge you. That's what Delta has been doing for almost a decade now.
That's what United has been doing for more than five years. Um, Alaska is a little bit unpredictable, and we should say that American for its own flights using Advantage Miles to book American Operated flights themselves. It still is kind of the wild west. They have blown up that award chart, but there is still a, an award chart for partner airline Award redemptions using American Airlines, miles to fly, cafe Pacific, Qatar Airways, Japan Airlines, Fiji Airways, all of the above and many more.
Yeah, so can you, I guess I wanna talk about, uh, Americans redemptions on their own planes, but can you tell me about some of those partner awards that you like and then we'll just kinda circle back to what American charges for its own stuff?
I, I think the best and most frequent one is those Japan Airlines business class redemptions from the US to Tokyo and even Osaka for 60,000 miles each way.
And $5 and 60 cents in taxes, in fees on the way back. It's like $45 from Tokyo back to the us.
Is that the best? Incredible. Is that the best deal in travel?
It's up there. It certainly is.
Yeah. I, I've been, I'm hard pressed to think of a better one.
And, uh, cafe Pacific Business class for 70,000 miles each way from the United States to Hong Kong or back.
This is how my wife and I booked our flights to start our trip to Hong Kong and Thailand this spring. That is an amazing deal. Again, very hard to find the award space even harder for Cafe Pacific than it is for, um, Japan Airlines. But when you can find it like we did on that new nonstop route from Seattle to Hong Kong, it's, it's unbeatable.
Yeah. And it, you know, conditions, demand conditions, economic conditions, permitting. American is pretty good about charging a reasonable rates for its own flights too. Tell me about how you can book American Airlines flights with American Miles. What a novel concept.
I know, right? Who would do that? No, they're.
American isn't quite yet on the level of Delta sky miles and its flash sales where they just deeply, deeply discount the normal award rates that you see. But I would say that they've gotten closer within the last year and change. So, you know, economy one way redemptions for as low as 5,000 miles are, are pretty easy to find.
Flying American itself. Europe for 30,000. Miles or so, give or take, Mexico and the Caribbean, again, no airline in the country has a better network flying to and from Mexico, the Caribbean, and Central America. And so being able to book some of those flights sometimes for as low as 12,000 advantage miles round trip is an amazing deal.
And then, you know, business class to both Europe and Australia, I think have been a real bright spot for American. Again, you're flying American itself, at least you're up in the front of the plane in this case. But, you know, we've seen Europe awards, uh, in business class sometimes for as low as 45,000 advantage miles each way.
Um, more regularly under 60,000 miles each way, which is a. Great redemption, especially when you look at United and Delta and see 200,000 miles or more, and then Australia to both Brisbane and in some cases Sydney for, um, under 85,000 miles each way for a business class seat on those 14, 15 hour flights.
Yeah. One, one note on those, on that business class availability, we tend to see that that availability release come in, what we kind of call that goldilock zone. Like it, it doesn't happen 10 or 11 months out. It doesn't happen at the very last minute, but it usually happens like a few months out. Once American realizes they're not gonna sell you that seat for 6,000 bucks, then they.
Tend to lower the price with an AA advantage Miles, but it's such a good deal. I mean, it's, it's worth almost booking something and then waiting those, uh, deals out, which is what I'm doing on a few trips right now.
And I think a, a sleeper part of what makes Advantage Miles so good is that American's website is so good for finding these deals because they have something that.
Very few airlines do quite well. They have a calendar. They have a calendar that allows you to click month to month and see the lowest rates in green. And they also have filters that allow you to filter only for nonstop flights or for one stop or fewer, or to filter only for premium economy or business class or first class, which really allows you to zero in on exactly the flights that you're looking for.
Yeah. Uh, definitely the best website for finding availability. It's so clean and easy. And then very quickly, um, American Points just got a lot easier to earn, right?
They did well, yes and no. Uh, they used to have two co-branded credit card relationships with both Citi and Barclays. Barclays is outta the picture.
They got kicked to the curb. So there's now only one airline, or only one co-branded bank that allows you to open an American co-branded credit card and earn those miles on the plus side much easier because. American is now a city transfer partner, which means if you have this city Strata elite or city strata premier card, you can transfer those city thank you points direct to American Airlines on a one-to-one basis.
Which yeah, to your point makes it so, so much easier.
Yeah. Okay. Um, that, those are our five underrated loyalty programs we think you should know about. So go ahead and sign up for your Fin Air obvious account, your jaw mileage bank account, your A NA Mileage Club account, your Air France, KLM Flying Blue account, and your AA Advantage account.
I think those are the good five to start with. That might not be obvious on everybody's mind. Anything else to add to your list?
I would just say I think these might be the five most frequent airline programs that I use for all of my travels near and far. And I'm curious whether there is one or two that you use frequently that is worth at least kind of an honorable mention
that I use frequently.
Um, I guess the only one on here that maybe. Underrated is Alaska, um, Alaska Atmos. Uh, those points are also just super valuable and they have this very strange grouping of partners that allow you to make redemptions on airlines like, uh, air Lingus and Condor. And, um, you know, they, they have a bunch of these funky partnerships that have some really good value, but I think that would be the only one that wouldn't make this list.
But, uh, it's hard to call it underrated when it's a US program, but I think your list is really strong.
Thanks, man.
Alright, let's go help a listener. Uh, before we get started with that, I would a reminder to send us your welcome back video to thrifty traveler.com/voicemail, or find the link in our show notes.
Leave us a message, a really short message, thrifty traveler.com/voicemail to leave us a message. We can't wait to hear from you there. Um, all right. From our listener, we have Grover who's written in before. Um. But a lot of what we highlighted this week involves kind of partner award redemptions using miles to book one airline, or sorry, using miles from an airline to book a flight on another airline, um, preferably for fewer miles in that case.
And that makes this question from Grover a perfect one. But he also had an idea that that really struck a chord with us. He said, quote. I just had a thought, taking a page outta the book of the famous Taylor Swift and her fan base, all being known as Swifties. Perhaps your fan base should be called Thrifties.
Kyle, your thoughts.
I love that he set this up as the famous Taylor Swift, as if she did truly need an introduction,
just in case you guys didn't know who Taylor Swift was,
which Taylor Swift are we talking about? Are we talking about the singer songwriter, touring musician, uh, global megastar, or are we talking about a man named Taylor Swift from Toledo, Ohio?
Yeah. Uh, the Thrifties. If, if you all are fans out there, wanna call yourself Thrifties, be my guest. Uh, I don't want to get a, a cease and desist from the Swifties or whoever runs that account though.
We, uh, we do not have enough money to fight off that lawsuit.
No, you can have it whatever you want. Uh, Taylor, come on the pod.
Number one podcast in the world. Did you see their latest rankings?
No.
No. She should come on. All right. Grover's question during our episode a few weeks ago about what we do after we book flights. He talked about going in and changing the loyalty number after you book with something that I mentioned that I do a, I do a little cleanup on the booking after you make the booking.
So Grover asks, does this only make sense when booking a partner trip IE if I'm booking on the KLM website, should I put my Delta loyalty number in, but I'm not already logged in via my KLM account? He goes, does this work with award bookings or only cash bookings? I'm thoroughly confused. Uh, Grover, you're thoroughly confused 'cause I didn't explain this well at all.
Um, what do you do, I guess, when, when you're talking about adding your loyalty number to other accounts and bookings?
You know, it's, this is also perfect because we recorded that episode about what we do after booking, and you mentioned that you do this and then I promptly forgot to do this for my Air France.
KLM flight that I booked using flying blue miles, flying delta. So what I would do in this case, especially for a partner award ticket where you're flying an airline where you have benefits or status or a co-branded credit card or whatever. So this Delta one is the perfect example. You book it with Air France, KLM Miles, then you go in and you manage that reservation@delta.com.
You enter your confirmation number. You remove your Air France loyalty number, which is automatically attached to that, and enter your Delta Sky Miles number on delta.com or in your Delta app because that is the key for Delta to see, oh, this is one of our flyers. This person has a co-branded credit card, which means they get a free check bag, they get priority boarding.
So because I forgot that, you know, fortunately we weren't checking a bag, but we were, we boarded in group like seven instead of five, which meant we were a little bit stressed about overhead bin space. I think really importantly, yes, in those situations, that's where it makes sense to change your loyalty number for an award ticket.
The, the biggest reason why you might want to enter a different loyalty number is for those cash fairs where you book a $500 ticket on. Iberia and you don't particularly maybe care about earning Iberia miles. You could enter your American loyalty number, your advantage account, and earn advantage miles instead, or earn Alaska Atmos rewards instead.
Yeah. And earn towards status on those things too. But yeah, that's why we do it is is you know, if you have, for instance, like the Cobrand credit card, like you said, it just makes sure that the airline is recognizing that perk. That's why I love booking with. Air France and Virgin to fly. Delta is because of that.
Exactly. 'cause they still treat you like a Delta person. Once you get there, uh, there's no difference in the flight. Right. Um, that's a really good question. Grover, thank you for reaching out. If you want us to answer your question on the podcast or if you have any feedback, hit us up at podcast@thriftytraveller.com.
We might feature your question on next week's show. It's on the spot to close the show. Kyle, it's your turn. What do you got?
We have had Olympics fever here in the Thrifty Traveler headquarters. What's your podium look like for airline mileage program? Oh, who gets gold? Who gets silver? Who's got the bronze?
Whoa. I thought you were gonna ask me what, uh, discipline I'd like to compete in at the Winter Olympics. Short track speed skating.
I, I thought for sure you were gonna do the double luge.
The double luge is wild. Uh, my podium. Okay. Uh, I think right now, air France, KLM, flying blue would take my top spot just 'cause of how useful it is to me.
As someone who's stuck at a Delta hub, I think. Honestly, just, maybe this is recency bias 'cause I flush with those points right now. But I've had a lot of success with both Alaska and American lately. Uh, for my situation, those are my silver and bronze because those are the three websites that I find myself on all the time.
So I, solid list.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Do you have one?
No.
Okay, then we're all good. Good show. Thank you so much for listening to the Thrifty Traveler Podcast. Rate us five stars in your platform of choice and like, and subscribe to the show on YouTube. Send this episode to someone you know who needs a vacation. If you have feedback for us, send me a note at podcast@thriftytraveler.com.
We'd love to hear from you there. Kyle, tell us about the team.
This episode was produced by your favorite host who is going for Gold in doubles luge in 20 30,
32.
2032.
Yeah, I think so. Oh, no.
20, 34 years. No, you're right. 2030, you're
right
again with journalist Math over here. Doubles. Luge. Terrible at math.
Gunner Olson. It was produced and edited by Sylvia Thomas and edited by Kyle Thomas. Our theme music is by Benjamin Teso. See you next week.
See ya.