The guys took the show on the road: Coming to you live from TEDxFargo in North Dakota in late July, Gunnar and Kyle devoted an episode of the show to airports not named JFK, LAX, MSP, ORD, or the other big hubs. The guys swapped stories and shared tips about traveling from smaller airports and cities. They talk about their favorite (and least favorite …) experiences at small airports before diving into the top tips for finding better deals, using points and miles, and traveling smarter from smaller airports. Plus, a TTPOD fan forces Gunnar to reckon with his O’Hare take and (former Fargo resident!) Kyle delights in seeing Gunnar’s reaction to visiting Fargo for the first time.
The guys took the show on the road: Coming to you live from TEDxFargo in North Dakota in late July, Gunnar and Kyle devoted an episode of the show to airports not named JFK, LAX, MSP, ORD, or the other big hubs. The guys swapped stories and shared tips about traveling from smaller airports and cities. They talk about their favorite (and least favorite …) experiences at small airports before diving into the top tips for finding better deals, using points and miles, and traveling smarter from smaller airports. Plus, a TTPOD fan forces Gunnar to reckon with his O’Hare take and (former Fargo resident!) Kyle delights in seeing Gunnar’s reaction to visiting Fargo for the first time.
This episode is presented by Visit Fargo-Moorhead!
And our thanks to North Dakota Tourism and Fargo Hector International Airport!
Join the conversation! Sign up for the free Thrifty Traveler Podcast Slack community today.
00:00 - Kyle’s triumphant return to Fargo
01:15 - Our favorite travel beers
04:15 - The Fargo audience welcomes us back!
04:35 - Thanks to our presenting sponsor: Visit Fargo-Moorhead
06:15 - Swapping our best small airport travel experiences
16:30 - Our weirdest, quirkiest small airport stories
22:30 - Thanks to our sponsor: North Dakota Tourism
23:35 - How to save on flights from smaller airports
43:50 - Thanks to our sponsor: Fargo Hector International Airport
44:40 - The best part of flying out of a small airport
46:30 - How to make travel easier at smaller airports
51:45 - Programs to avoid for high fees and surcharges
54:30 - Gunnar’s official legal statement about O’Hare
56:15 - Kyle’s favorite Fargo memory & best Fargo beer
Video & Audio production by LiveWire
Produced and edited by Sylvia Thomas
Video editing by Kyle Thomas
Show music: “All That” by Benjamin Tissot
Yo, welcome to the Thrifty Traveler Podcast live from TEDxFargo. We're at the Prairie Den in downtown Fargo, North Dakota. I'm your host, Gunnar Olsen, a travel reporter and flight deal analyst at Thrifty Traveler, and with me, as always, he is the executive editor of Thrifty Traveler, a connoisseur of Upper Midwest culture, a former Fargo resident and reporter for the Forum of Fargo Moorhead, and most importantly, he's my co-host. It's Kyle Potter. Kyle, welcome back to Fargo. How does it feel to be here? It's amazing to be here. Uh, this is, uh, this is feels really nice. I-- You know what a soft spot in my heart I have for Fargo, what an amazing community this is. All right, today on the show, we're diving into the highs and lows of traveling from smaller airports and giving out some of our best tips and tricks for booking travel from places like Fargo. There are more than five hundred airports in the country with commercial service, and most of them look more like Hector International than they do JFK and LAX. But JFK- That's a good thing. It is a good thing. Just for the record, like that's a win. It is a- Not just for this community, but for everybody. Yeah, it's absolutely a good thing. So we wanna dig into what it's like to travel from airports all over North America today. But first, Kyle, I need to find something out. Um, Fargo's my kinda town, okay? Just, just being here a few hours, I can already tell by looking at the marquees for a two dollar mystery shot at the VFW down the street. Yep. Uh, people up here love themselves a good beer or a good cocktail, so I wanna know, what is the best travel beer? And it, it doesn't have to be a actual beer. I want it to be more like a situation that you're having a beer. It doesn't even have to be a beer, a drink maybe even. What is your best travel beer? I-- It felt for a while, uh, that you were just begging for a Coke and E*drop within the first, like, three minutes of this, which that's not happening. There's a, there's a couple. Um, I will give a shout-out to end of a stressful travel day beer, where it feels like everything has gone wrong and you're never gonna get where you're trying to go. And then eventually you get there hours or maybe even days late, and you have that first drink, and it's like, "All right, I made it. I'm here." The best one, though, is the, and I ha-- I'll put this in quotes because it is the full quotation of how I think about this. The quote, "Should I do this? Am I really doing this? Sure, it's 9:00 AM, maybe even earlier, but I'm on vacation, right? I deserve this, don't I?" beer. That is, that is a very specific subgenre of beer, which I will stress The airport lounge beer does not count in that because airports themselves are lawless, standardless places where time doesn't exist. Um, but airport lounges in particular are just full of people who are ready to drink at 5:00 AM. You always have a drinking buddy to tell you that you're doing okay, no matter what hour you're having a beer or a cocktail or a wine. So this is a, this is a different thing. It can happen during your travel day, it can happen when you're in a, in your destination, but it's a very special type of travel beer. That's a really, really good travel... Two really good nominees. I have two as well. All right? Lay 'em on me. Um, the first beer after the day's activity when you're traveling. Like, once the activity is done, you went on the hike, you did your tour, you went to your museum, that first beer when it flips from traveling to vacation every day, oh, that's a good one. That is. That's a really good cocktail. And then the second one is, is perhaps the most specific. It's the hotel minibar beer while my wife is getting ready for dinner. Because that pro- I, I'm ready 45 minutes to an hour earlier than she is- ... so I'm sitting on the hotel bed having whatever's local in the minibar, typically, watching local TV news in whatever language it's on in. Yeah. That's how you get to know a place, right there. That's travel. How quickly do you grab the folio at checkout so Megan doesn't see- ... the nine beers that you racked up at, like, $12 apiece or more? She gets, she gets the s- the small champagne for when she's getting ready, too, so it's, we're both getting our travel beer in there. You didn't answer the question. I won't answer the question. Okay, today on the show we are in Fargo talking about the keys to traveling more for less from smaller airports, and sharing some stories along the way. All that and more, live from Fargo, North Dakota. Welcome back to the Thrifty Traveler Podcast. So we need to start, uh, by thanking some of our sponsors. First of which, this episode and live show, uh, of the Thrifty Traveler podcast is presented by Visit Fargo-Moorhead, a place which I've already told y'all is near and dear to my heart, and that everybody here with us agrees should be on travelers' radars. Gunnar, you know I fell in love with this community on the border of Minnesota and North Dakota, uh, when I lived here after college. It's changed so much in the last 10 years, and yet every time I visit, which happens at least once a year, I find something new. Yeah, Fargo-Moorhead, West Fargo has become one of the Midwest's most unexpected arts destinations, earning the nickname Arts Capital of the North. Whether you're into live theater, symphony performances, independent galleries, colorful public art, or live music, you'll find a creative scene that punches way above its weight. And unlike larger cities, you can enjoy it without fighting crowds or paying big city prices. But it still has everything you want out of big cities, like some amazing restaurants, great shopping, public art and murals, and tons of energy. I'm still amazed at how much I loved living here, and it's always getting better. I love to walk down Broadway right here in downtown Fargo and pop into some of the storefronts, catch a movie or a show at the historic Fargo Theater, and capping the night at Brew Halla for some amazing local beers. I never need an excuse to grab dinner at Mezzaluna just down the street, or Fargo right across... or at Rustica right across the river. And it's easy and cheap to get in and out with a slick airport that's just 10 minutes from downtown Fargo. If you're looking for a weekend getaway that's creative, affordable, and full of surprises, put Fargo-Moorhead, West Fargo on your list. Plan your trip, discover upcoming events, and explore everything happening in the Arts Capital of the North at fargomoorhead.org. Okay, let's get into something hot and something cold, a look at the good and the bad news out there for travelers. And today we are diving into this theme of traveling from small airports, which everyone here knows can be amazing. It can also come with some quirks as well. So for something hot, Kyle, I want a story or two about your best experiences traveling from small airports. Anything come to mind immediately? Yeah, because it happened today. Oh, oh. So I mean, full disclosure, just a teensy bit of recency bias in this one. Um, but man, the Fargo Airport, for starters, it's been a while since I've flown in there, but man, that is a good-looking concourse now. It is a great, easy, convenient airport. But two, and more importantly, the look on your face when we walked down to baggage claim after walking through the concourse and you complimented it. And then Gunnar said, and I will quote directly here, "There's a USA 250th birthday riding lawnmower in the baggage claim and a pontoon. This place rules." I meant every word of that. Uh, I was super impressed. I was blown away. A pontoon right there. It was just setting the vibe the second you get off the plane. So a new running bit between us, which mostly has been just in the office and not on the podcast until this very moment, is that I love to razz you for your big city mentality. So if you guys don't know, Gunner is a Chicago native. So any, any community l- smaller than a million people, he's like, "Oh, wow, that's tiny." So it just, uh, there's a good dose of perspective happening over here, I think. It is, and it probably informs one of my favorite, uh, my something hot here, one of my favorite small airport experiences, and that's 'cause I went really, really small with my nominees. My favorite airport in the world is the Musiara Airstrip in the Masai Mara in Kenya. Oh. To say that this place is a terminal that consists of two benches, both outside, one has shade, one does not. Uh, there's an outhouse that's at the end of the runway, so it takes like 45 minutes- ... to get down there. Uh, we flew this airline called Safari Link, and we flew it from Nairobi Wilson Airport into this Musiara Airstrip. To get to Nairobi Wilson, we, we took a transfer from the international airport in Nairobi, and, uh, the cab driver leans over to us as we're going into the airport, and he goes, uh, "Don't talk to the cops." And we're like, "Okay." He goes, "They're gonna come to the window. Don't talk to the cops. They want a bribe." And my wife was looking at me like, "Incredible honeymoon, babe. Thanks." "Thanks so much. This is so much fun." But w- we, we check in for this flight, and check-in is bananas. They just, they rip the bags out of your hands, like, "Where are you going?" And we just like, I just showed them on the piece of paper, and they're like, "Okay, follow your bag." And so we were just sitting there, like watching our bags on a cart, waiting to see which plane they would go to, and that was the bag the flight we would go to. But we board this little Cessna. There were six people on board. The co-pilot was, uh, also the flight attendant. He turned around and, and made a joke about how there won't be any meal service on today's flight. And we, we took this beautiful low flight across the African bush, um, and we get, we see our airstrip coming in the distance, and the pilot goes and has to buzz the airstrip really low to push all the wildebeest and zebra off- ... so that he didn't hit them when he land. It was so cool, like one of the coolest aviation experiences of my life. Um, and then on the way out, same airstrip- We saw a Dash 8, a SafariLink Dash 8 take off from, like, five miles in the distance. It was, it w- we saw a plane take off and we were like, "Huh. Like, I thought our flight was supposed to be right now." And we just see it take off, get to about 1,000 feet, and then turn and come land right in front of us and pick us up. It was so cool to see a plane take off from that close and pick us up. It was just obviously, they were picking up four or five people along the way. We were the last one. Um, but it, that was the tiniest airport I'll ever go to with scheduled commercial service. It was an epic aviation experience. Also, one of the most expensive flights I've a- I've ever taken. No points and miles options for good old SafariLink. Well- No, no co-chairs. What would SafariLink- No ... Link's frequent flyer program be called? Oh, that's a good one. I don't know. Like Will DeMiles? Yeah. Oh, I like that. I don't know. That's ... I got nothing else. You came up with that question with the best answer. That's rude. Yeah? Well- You put me on the spot like that. I, you know, I'm trying to outshine you. Any other something hots here? Any other great experiences from small airports? Same vein, not quite that small. A couple of years ago, my wife and I took a trip through, uh, French Polynesia, New Zealand, and Australia. And in doing so, we made our way to Bora Bora, which is the best flight and the best airport of my life, and here's why. I mean, it's probably an hour tops flight on this small, not quite teeny tiny Cessna landing in the bush small, but a small prop plane, um, where you feel every single bump and you feel the rotors spinning. And then on approach into Bora Bora, you just go right past th- this crystal blue, picture perfect bay surrounding this, like, otherworldly volcanic mountain in the center of Bora Bora. And then you pass over it. You see the whole thing in order to go a- past it, turn around, and come back and land at an airport that has two gates- Uh, uh, where you get off the plane direct on the tarmac, walk to this tiny concourse, which is just a building, a small building. You wait for your bags where they just put them on this metal shelf. You grab your bags, and then you walk out do- directly to a pier, where you get on a boat and you go to your hotel. And then when you come back, repeat that same process in reverse, and there is no security. And I don't mean lack security, I mean there is no security. There is not a single monitor. There is not a security agent. You just stroll through the, through the airport to your gate, go back on your plane and leave paradise. It... For as much as the security situation has complicated our travels, it's really cool to see. I don't know if it's just, like, a level of trust that other, other nations, other cities, other airports, I don't know, have in travelers to, to be okay. Yeah, that is so cool, especially getting off a boat and getting on a boat right off the tarmac. I mean, that, that airport, I've seen it on the map before, but to experience it is really cool. Um, I have one more. I have one more. Uh, Alaska West Airlines, which you won't find on Google Flights as well. Uh, my whole... My wife's whole family and I went to Alaska a few years ago. Um, we had a trip booked down to Brooks Falls in Katmai National Park, which is where you see the grizzlies fishing salmon out of the river. Like, they're at peak, uh, salmon fishing right now. You probably have seen the videos online. Uh, we went to the Anchorage Airport at 4:00 AM for our flight two consecutive days, only to have the flight canceled both times due to fog, so we were devastated. Like, this was the centerpiece of the trip. My wife's dream is to go to Katmai. So we moved on to our next part of our trip in Seward. Which was also awesome, but we were like, "All right, let's, let's find something, like let's do a bear expedition." So we booked this on a whim, uh, this Alaska West Airlines out of Nikiski, Alaska, which is near Kenai on the Kenai Peninsula. Uh, again, a 4:00 AM wake-up call to drive two hours over to Nikiski, and when you get there, your, your check-in experience is just one guy on the pier fitting you for waders and boots so you can get into the plane. And once you get in there, once you have your waders and boots, you go in for, uh, an espresso and a breakfast burrito, which is part of it. It's all included in the price of your, your, uh, float plane ticket. And then we get in this... We're, we're, we're sitting there having, you know, in our waders and boots like cosplaying outdoorsy people, you know? And having our espresso and our little breakfast burrito, and we just see them firing up the float planes, and we got to take these incredible bright yellow float planes into, uh, Lake Clark National Park in Alaska, which is really hard to get to on your own. A- another one of the most expensive flights of my life. But just this idyllic, like, and the, they just bank these planes in and land right on this just, you know, beautiful, beautiful lake in the middle of the Alaskan wilderness. And, uh, it, it was just s- like a really special aviation experience. On the way back, uh, the guy was like, "Hey, does anybody wanna sit up front, like with the pilot? And I didn't get to on the way down." And I was, I was trying to be kinda cool about it, like, "Yeah, does anybody, anybody else, uh, if, if nobody else wants it, like I'll, I'll pop up there." And I, I got up there, and I just mentioned to the guy, uh, just trying to show him my outdoorsy bonafides, that I like to ski. And he, as soon as I said it, he just s- looked at me and then banked the plane around, and he went and showed me a glacier that he, in the wintertime, they take the floats off the planes. He puts skis on them, and he lands his plane onto a glacier, backcountry skis up and down the glacier all day, and then he makes sure that he parks his plane at the top so that he has some, some downward motion so he can get the plane back up off skis. And this guy was telling me just everything about how cool, uh, that life seems, and I was just sitting there trying to pretend like what he and I do is the same. It's like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm a big, big skier, too." "I pay 250 bucks a day to ride the lifts and have a Bloody Mary at 11:00 AM." This guy's landing his own plane on a glacier in Alaska. But that was like one of the coolest experiences, and that was also... I wouldn't even call it an airport. It was more of a dock. Yeah. Kinda like Bora Bora. Yeah. Also no security there, but, uh- Beautiful. Yeah. It was a really, really special experience. I've, I have two follow-ups. Yeah. What are the odds that that pilot is still alive? I don't know. He definitely lives a, a risky lifestyle, um, but I hope he's out there somewhere. Just living large. I hope so. All right, question two: What, which major US airline will be the first to include breakfast burritos and espresso in the cost of your ticket? Oh, the new... How about the new Sun Country Allegiant? Let's get it going, right? They need a new calling card. We'll get- You think that's the calling card- Yeah ... that's gonna get people on board? An espresso and a burrito. I, I... It's gonna make me consider it. Gonna, it's gonna get you. Yeah, it's gonna get me. Uh, let's flip this. Let's do something cold. Uh, we all know that times can be challenging from small airports as well. Any quirks, weird stories you've got? The, the weirdest one, and it's not that bad, but it was like, oh, this is, this is the price you pay to get this far into the middle of nowhere. Earlier this year, uh, my wife and I went to Thailand, and we were dead set on just getting to some island that it felt like nobody goes to. Spoiler alert, people know of this island. We're not the only people that have ev- ever been there. But it just, it felt like this isn't Phuket, this isn't Ko Samui, this isn't Koh Phangan. And so we went to this island called Koh Kood, and I've talked on our show before about the, just the absolute gauntlet that it took to get there. A four-hour flight from Hong Kong to Bangkok, another hour from Bangkok to, uh, Trat, which is a re- sm- tiny, again, two-gate airport in n- near the border with Cambodia. And then a 90-minute car ride to the ferry port, a 60-minute ferry ride, and then another 30-minute car ride to the hotels. What I didn't include is that- Because of the time we landed and the lack of transportation options at the Trot Airport, we landed and then figured out, oh, our driver's not gonna be able to make it here for another two hours. In this tiny airport without, uh, I mean, not, not even air conditioning, not really functioning fans. It wasn't the best two hours of my life. It also wasn't the worst. And it... If anything, I think it reinforced how worth it it is to go to those lengths to go somewhere new. New for you, you know, whatever that means. To... I mean, these places are hard to reach by design, so it is absolutely worth that. But it wasn't the most fun day, uh, in the Trot Airport sitting out in the sun. Yeah, I... We're, we're lucky to have airports in a lot of these places. I mean, it's, it's part of the allure of, of traveling to some of these small airports. Um, one of those places for me is certainly the Jackson Hole Airport where I had one of my, my small airport lows, although I guess you can be the judge if it's a low or a high. Um, I was out in Jackson Hole. I was playing a glorified men's league hockey series against a team called the Jackson Hole Moose. We lost both games. Uh, so naturally we went out- I'm, I'm sorry. Are people supposed to know this team? They are not. Okay. You said it with an air of, "Oh, Gunner's a big shot." I wanted them to sound really good- ... so it didn't look as bad when I said we lost both games. And then we went out to celebrate losing both games, and we had a very long night at the Million Dollar Cowboy Bar in, uh, downtown Jackson. And, uh, went to the airport bright and early for my flight out the next morning on zero sleep. A flight from Jackson Hole through Atlanta to, uh, Liberia, Costa Rica. Uh, maybe the first person to ever do that itinerary, I think. Uh, I, I checked in for the flight, went to the gate, and I sat as close as I could to the gate 'cause I knew this might happen, and I promptly fell asleep. The, the Delta flight attendant woke me up by hand to get me onto the flight and goes, "Gunner? Are, are you Mr. Olsen?" And I, I, I popped awake and was like, "Yeah. Yeah, that's me." And she goes, "You need to get on the plane, sir." So I... Th- this woman, she saved me, my whole trip probably. And so I get onto this plane. I immediately sit down in my seat and fall asleep again. I wake up three hours later, I check my watch. I was like, "Oh, man, I wonder how close we are to Atlanta." And I looked out the window, and it was just a blizzard in Jackson Hole. We hadn't moved an inch. And I, I had slept for a full three hours, looked up and was like, "Oh, my gosh." But the... That was one of the longest travel days of my life. It ended in Costa Rica, rolling into an Airbnb at, like, 3:00 in the morning, and I vowed to dr- I was never drinking again so many times that day. And, uh, it didn't go well. We, we started drinking pretty early on after that in Costa Rica. I was gonna say, how long did that vow last? Um, all right, I have one more before your, your closing something cold. I, I, I'm not even gonna try to top this one. So you say what you gotta say, and let's move on. Uh, all right, one, one more small airport hilarity. Last November, I was in Lansing, Michigan, visiting my little brother at college. I had a 5:00 AM flight from Lansing to Detroit to connect back home to MSB. It was nuking snow when I got to the airport at 5:00 AM. I was like, "This is not good, but we're going." It was the first flight of the day. I thought, "That's a good sign. Like, the plane's already here. We're good to go." Uh, we were a minute or two delayed. The captain comes on and says, "We're waiting on the de-icing guy." I was like, "You know what? That happens." Uh, it was just one de-icing guy. He shows up in a pickup truck with a de-icing rig on the top. He sprays down one wing by himself, then he drives around, starts spraying down the other wing, but by the time he had finished spraying down that wing, like an inch and a half of snow had fallen on the first wing. So he comes around, does the other wing again. We're sitting there for an hour and a half, and I'm- Oh ... I'm watching this guy. He's back next to my window again. I'm like, "Oh, please, I never w- I don't wanna see you again." He goes, does another wing. Then I see him, and I mean, we, we sat there for so, so long, uh, before the sun comes up in a driving snowstorm. Um, I- he finally got us de-iced, and we did eventually get to Detroit. Everybody missed their connection, of course, but, uh, this guy, I think about him all the time. I assume his name is Dale. The de-icing guy in Lansing, Michigan. I just don- That, that tracks. Yeah ... I always thought his name was Dale. So I, I think about Dale a lot and how hard he was working that morning. But man, just one guy in the de-icing truck when it's snowing that hard, that was a tough run. Whoa. Tough run for Dale that day. What a life for Dale. Do you have any more, any more, uh, lows from travel airports or smaller airports? I know when I've been beat. I'm done. Let's move on. Okay, we have some tips and tricks to travel better from smaller airports, but let's take a quick break to hear from North Dakota Tourism. Kyle. If you're always looking for destinations that surprise you, we've got one for you. The Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library is now open in, in Medora, North Dakota, and honestly, it's a lot more than a museum. You can step into Teddy Roosevelt's story through interactive exhibits that bring his legacy of conservation, leadership, and citizenship to life. Yeah, and the setting is pretty incredible, too. The library is built right into the North Dakota Badlands, just outside Theodore Roosevelt National Park. It's actually designed to become part of the landscape, making it one of the most sustainable cultural institutions in the world. And the library is just the beginning. If you're making the trip, don't stop with Medora. We're in the eastern part of the state today, but the road to Medora is part of the experience. Take the scenic route, wander through small towns, grab a bite to eat at a local favorite, and enjoy everything that makes a North Dakota road trip worth taking. Once you're there, explore Theodore Roosevelt National Park. This is on my bucket list, by the way. For the full Badlands experience, then catch the M- the Medora Musical, a summer tradition celebrating Teddy Roosevelt and the American West. Trust us, this is one trip you'll be glad you added to the list. You can learn more at ndtourism.com Let's get back to this. All right, it's time for the Extra Mile, where we dig a little deeper on an important travel topic, and this week we're digging into all of our best tips for traveling from smaller regional airports. So much of travel, especially points and miles, focuses on travelers in New York, Boston, DC, LA, but that's just a fraction of the people flying in and around the US. So I wanna look at this in two ways. One, how to save on travel from smaller airports, and then we'll do some travel tips at the end, too. So let's talk about how to save. Kyle, I'll ask you this one to start. I- Is it always more expensive to fly from a place like Fargo or a smaller airport than it is from bigger ones? I'm gonna start this with a statistic. I'm gonna ask for your help, and then we're gonna drill down into why this happens. If you had to compare the average fares departing from Minneapolis versus Fargo, how much more expensive would you guess Fargo departure fares are? Throw out a number, anybody I heard a couple of two hundreds. Uh, on average so far in twenty twenty-six, fares departing from Fargo were seven to ten dollars cheaper than Minneapolis. And here's why. Competition is everything for airfare, and Delta dominates Minneapolis. They control seventy-plus percent of that market. People who want to fly nonstop and say they need to fly nonstop, they are paying Delta prices. Those prices are higher Small airports like Fargo, like Jackson Hole, like Kalispell, Montana, countless others ac- across the country have more competition from these major airlines than the big hubs. And at these big hubs, like Minneapolis, Chicago, Detroit, Dallas, Atlanta, go across the list of 20-plus major airports, you have hub penalties, and by booking these several different connecting flights, you can get much cheaper alternatives than where there's only one game in town. Yeah. They, they need your business. They have to compete for your business in a place like Fargo or, like you said, in any airport across the country, whereas in Minneapolis, Delta has admitted as, as much on earnings calls where they say, "You know, we're gonna charge a few bucks extra just 'cause we know we're Delta, and we know you love us." And so they're gonna, you know, they get to fleece the people who live at hubs while they have to compete for, uh, travelers in, in places where you have to connect. This is my favorite example of all time of how nonsensical airfare pricing is and how the big hubs actually wind up getting penalized more. A couple of years ago, we were looking at some fares, uh, to Tokyo, Tokyo Haneda. Roundtrip fares, uh, f- on the Delta nonstop were, like, $1,200 roundtrip. By departing from Winnipeg, not too far from here, not a fun drive, but probably worth it, it was $308 flying Delta roundtrip, flying from Winnipeg down to Minneapolis, hopping on that exact same nonstop that cost $1,200, and then d- then doing the same thing in reverse. These are the games that airlines play. I... This doesn't mean everybody in Fargo, everybody in Kalispell, everybody wherever at some of the smaller airports across the country are always gonna find a bargain, but it means that better deals are out there if you're willing to look for them. Yeah, it's a good point there. Um, let's talk about probably the best strategy that people can use, you know, having said that about, uh, how connecting flights can sometimes be a lot cheaper. Sometimes to avoid the most expensive flights out of a place like this, you need to book a positioning flight. Can you give us a primer on what a positioning flight is? Positioning flights are the, like, most counterintuitive but maybe the most important things, especially for international travel, and maybe even more so if you're trying to redeem miles. So think of it like this. You're building your own connection. If you start every search from Fargo to get to somewhere like London or Tokyo or Amsterdam or wherever The price is the price. If you can get yourself to an airport where it's significantly cheaper, preferably an airport that has more competition, like say Chicago, where A, you can fly direct nonstop from a, an airport like Fargo, and B, there are several different options to get you somewhere like London or Tokyo, uh, and get that at a much cheaper price, and then separately book yourself that initial flight from Fargo to Chicago, you can come out ahead. So let's say, you know, you start from Fargo and you search direct to London and it's $1,200 round trip. Well, if you start y- that search instead by typing in Chicago O'Hare and search fares, maybe it's 600, maybe it's 500. Sometimes it's even less than that. And then you think, "Okay, well now I can try to time things out to get to Chicago, book that flight separately." If that flight is $300, sometimes less, you're coming out by, you know, four or $500 or more. That's, that's the idea. That's the theory of what you're trying to do to fit these pieces together, to get a little bit creative, a little bit uncomfortable in order to save on travel. Yeah, definitely. And you know, it, it, it helps when it's a flight. It doesn't always have to be a flight. You could book the train, you can book a one-way car rental too. Of course, you know, sometimes that means you have to make that Fargo to Minneapolis drive. What's your favorite part of that drive, Kyle? One, one of our great scenic routes in this country, huh? Pass. Um, can I tell my favorite story of the Fargo-Minneapolis drive? Please. Okay. Uh, I went to St. Olaf College in southern Minnesota, and you won't be surprised to find out by looking at me that I played lacrosse there. Uh, North Dakota State was in our conference, so we'd come up and play the Bison every year. Um, it was, it was a, a conference that was born out of location and not out of skill set or parity, because they would beat us by 20 to 30 goals every single time we played them. So we were gonna play them one spring- The amount of... Just pause for a second, and let's all appreciate together the amount of humble brag about just crushing losses in middling profe- uh, middling college sports. We're now at three, I think- I think so ... in about 15 minutes. Yeah. I didn't- Which is actually the under that I had for this show. I didn't win a lot, did I? No. Now that I think about it. Don't have a great track record. Anyway, go on with your story. So we were, we were gonna come up to play the Bison one spring, and our club was so broke, uh, we decided we didn't wanna spend any more money than we needed to, so we were going to drive up from southern Minnesota to Fargo and drive back down after we played NDSU after what was sure to be a humiliating game. It was on April 2nd, so of course, massive blizzard comes through, and, uh, we get up here in, like, five or six hours. We play NDSU. It was, like, 18 degrees out, whipping snow. Uh, we lost by 20. I had a couple goals. You want me to go through each one? No. Nah, I'm good. No, that's fine. That's fine. We don't have time. Uh, so we start driving home. The weather's getting, like, really hairy. It's a full whiteout to the point where they shut I-94. They're like, "You gotta get off." And, uh, I'll, I'll back up a little bit. During that game, I sustained what was definitely a concussion. Um, I was also the driver of the vehicle. Why did you play sports? I was not at m- my top form by this point on this drive home. Uh, but I decided we're pressing on. We're going side roads all the way back to southern Minnesota- Oh, dear ... in a whiteout blizzard, uh, an eight-hour journey that got us home just before midnight. And I just want you to consider what my teammates in the back of my car were thinking at this moment. I am 20 years old, the dumbest I've ever been, for sure. Plus, clearly concussed, pressing on through a snowstorm after losing to NDSU by 20 goals in a meaningless game in April, just so I didn't have to spend the 59 bucks to stay overnight at the Come Inn On. Uh, it was... It must have been horrifying, and I think about my teammates every day and what they went through that, that day in particular, but every minute that they knew me. Uh, that, that's my favorite Fargo to Minneapolis drive story. Was that worth it? Uh, what's the takeaway for people here? What does this mean for positioning flights? Uh, it means that if it's snowing, uh, maybe book the flight, maybe not the drive, uh, and try not to get a concussion. Can we-- Let's, let's take a minute to recognize positioning flights so, so powerful for saving on international travel. Borderline critical for redeeming miles does not come without risks. Biggest ones, you're booking these flights separately And something goes wrong with your first flight, you are caught holding the bag, which means you gotta give yourself a really big buffer. Mine is, if I'm booking a positioning flight before an international flight, a four-hour connection is typically the minimum that I'll take to build in. So if I land, if our flight is departing at 2:00 PM, I gotta be there by, quick math in the head, 10 p- 10:00 AM, the other one, in order to feel like I'm gonna be okay if something starts to go wrong. In some cases, you know, especially if you're trying to hop on a once in a lifetime trip to Europe or get on a cruise, going the night before is not the worst idea. It is worth, you know, especially if you have some points or a statement credit on a credit card to pay for a cheap night in a hotel to make sure that you get there, and that you're ready to take that long-haul flight. It's the best thing that you can do. This is a medium to high-risk, ultra high reward travel tactic. Yeah, absolutely. We're gonna talk about a few more of those strategies as well. Um, another thing I wanna touch on, while not every airport has big budget airlines like we do at the major hubs, there is a little-known way to save on low-cost carriers if your airport does have them. What am I talking about? Well, first I'm gonna disagree with you quite publicly. I think increasingly we're seeing more of the budget airlines go to smaller airports because they don't have to compete with the likes of Delta and American and United. So, you know, having, at many smaller airports, at the very least Allegiant, but, you know, increasingly Frontier. If you're on the East Coast, air- airlines like Breeze and Avelo. They're, it's becoming more common, like this is how, now that Spirit is gone, RIP, and Frontier has been on the ropes for a while, this is like how air- these smaller budget airlines are making things work, is by going where there's not competition and flying in and out of some of these smaller airports. Yeah, absolutely. Um, all right, so when there is low-cost competition, any money-saving tips for people? I mean, the biggest one is just the most disgusting word salad in the history of airlines. Uh, it varies by name. Uh, one calls it a passenger usage charge. Uh, another calls it an electronic carrier usage charge. Uh, there's another one that's calls it like some kind of passenger technology fee. It is all airline mumbo jumbo for, "We charge you a fee when you book your tickets online or by phone." And I think fortunately, there's more awareness than there was. When we first started writing about this like four or five years ago, it felt like people were just aghast that this is what was happening, that some airlines were charging- $22 or more each way per passenger just for booking your tickets online in the 21st century. It's just, it's still a little bit unfathomable, unfathomable how many airlines get away with this and that this is still so common across ultra-low-cost carriers. But the most important thing about this is that because it's an optional fee Airlines have to give you a way to avoid it, and the way you avoid it is you pretend like it's the 1980s, you put on your windbreaker, you go to the airport, and you buy your tickets from the counter. It is unbelievable that, I mean, we, we hear from our coworker Jackson Newman, who lives in Sioux Falls, and he does this all the time on Allegiant in particular, where he'll drive to the airport. He'll be like, "Hey, guys, I gotta take a quick 20 minutes. I'm driving to the airport to go buy some plane tickets." And I'm like, "What are you doing?" But he goes and he does this 'cause he's booking for a family most of the time, and he's like, "Yeah, I'm gonna save, you know, 100 bucks for five people to go to the airport and book my tickets." Have you done this? Yeah. I did it for you. You did it for me? I did it for you. When? When we flew Sun Country to Palm Springs- Oh ... last year, I went to the airport. So there are, what, what, five or six airlines that charge this? Allegiant and now Sun Country, they're basically one airline now. Avelo, Breeze, Frontier, and the late Spirit. Again, RIP, pour one out. These are all the com- most common airlines. Southwest doesn't do this. American, Delta, United don't do this. Um, but we were flying Sun Country. I went to the airport. We were booking five tickets for the five of us that were departing from Minneapolis that day. It saved $220 by going to the airport. We were able to select seats and add bags for those who needed them during this. I would say two really important things, you're going to try this which, with whichever airline. One, research the ticketing hours. Some airlines are really restrictive because they just don't want people to do this. Like Allegiant at some airports has a 90-minute window once a week where they will actually sell you tickets at the airport. So make sure you time it out. I believe it's much better here bec- for Allegiant because they have so many flights in and out, but at some airports it's, it's really nasty. Uh, two, m- make sure you have all the details. You gotta have every passenger's first and last name, date of birth, frequent flyer number if you have it, passport number if you're going abroad, all of those kinds of things. And the last one, Jackson does this because he's a sicko. I think he just likes going to the airport and seeing stuff. The better way to do this is if you can time it right with when your airline is selling tickets, work it into a trip. When you're checking in for your flight or especially when you're coming back from a trip, stop at the counter before you go to your car. I mean, in many cases it's gonna be well worth paying whatever parking fees you would have to and gas for the car to get there. There are some serious savings here, especially for families. Yeah, for sure. Um, let's talk about points and miles. We got a room full of sickos here. Let's get into it. Um, when, Kyle, I guess, would it make the most sense to use points and miles to fly from a smaller airport? I mean, almost all the time, right? I think especially because miles, I mean, the... We have one mantra when it comes to redeeming miles, which is the best use of any points and miles you have is for a trip you otherwise wouldn't take or couldn't afford. That's our North Star, so any time you can use miles, the better. And I think much like the misconceptions about airfare always being ex- expensive from smaller airports, there's a misconception that miles either don't go as far or are just harder to use from smaller airports, and I think the latter sometimes can be true. I think the, the former is not true at all. I think it's just the opposite. Yeah, definitely. I- so what are some, I mean, airline programs that work best from a smaller airport? 'Cause I know, like, especially with some partner awards, it's gonna be a little harder to find, you know, really cheap flights from a place like Fargo if you have to book a connection. What, what, uh, programs work best for connections? I mean, generally speaking, I think especially if you're trying to book a bigger trip abroad, a long-haul international trip to Europe, to South America, to Asia or Australia, any of the major US airline programs like American Advantage, Delta SkyMiles, United MileagePlus are really good because in most cases, the cost of, you know, using Delta SkyMiles to fly from LA to Sydney Versus the cost of flying from Minneapolis to LA to Sydney, or from Fargo to Minneapolis to LA to Sydney, which is still the quickest way you can get there, I'm sorry. Um, they are either identical, you know, Delta is not charging more miles for all of those different connections to get to LA and then eventually all the way to Sydney, or it's a couple of thousand dollar- or a couple of thousand miles more per ticket. So I just don't want people to write off redeeming their miles because I think it just gets people in this pattern of saying, "I'm just gonna hang onto these because it's not gonna work for this trip." And until you actually l- do the search from Fargo to Sydney to London to Helsinki or wherever, you might be surprised that the rates are better than you thought. Yeah, we, we see this all the time at Thrifty Traveler Premium when we put together these big sales. A, a lot of them are fully nationwide. So we see it with American miles, for instance, where there's this recurring sale to Bangkok where you can, if you're flying, uh, American with connections into Japan Airlines, you can go to Bangkok. I think the rate is 70,000 AA miles round trip, and it's from every single airport in the country with American service. You get the exact same rate. Uh, and they run it several times a year. We, we always find it when they do. And we've seen the same thing with these SkyMiles sales. They are, like, truly nationwide sales, 150-plus airports, uh, with the same rate flying to wherever you wanna go. So when they, when they're putting these sales on, they're really targeting not just hubs. Where it used to be they would leave the hubs out and let the connections in, they're just saying, "Everyone gets the same price. Book it while you got it." These sales don't always last super long, but when they do, it's so good and, and you can get it from almost any airport in the country as long as you're willing to take a few connections. I mean, the number of Delta flash sales that we've found to basically anywhere in Europe where the price for a nonstop from New York City to somewhere like Madrid is, let's say, 32,000 SkyMiles, and the price from Minneapolis to Madrid, Minneapolis to JFK to Madrid is also 32, and Fargo to Minneapolis to JFK to Madrid is also 32. It, it's just, it's not always gonna happen that way, but again, I just want people to, to look and see if they can use whatever US airline miles that they have on these big trips. Yep. The US airline miles are obviously- Usually easiest for many of us to earn, but, uh, some of the foreign programs that I like for this, Air Canada, you can get connections, uh, on United when you book with Air Canada Aeroplan. I use that all the time, especially for, uh, international business class awards in the Star Alliance 'cause you can book a connection, you know, through O'Hare or through Denver, um, which both are good options from here. Um, and then, uh, there's obviously Flying Blue. Some of the connections are a little clunky on Flying Blue sometimes. It's not as, as picture perfect as Air Canada or the, the domestic programs, but those are some other ones I do. Any-- Did I miss any? Um, to book American Airlines, Finnair, uh, Avios, which you can transfer from all of the major credit card companies, Chase, American Express, Capital One, either directly to Finnair or to British Airways and then kick them over to Finnair because they're all part of this big, happy Avios family. I mean, the key here is to focus on the programs that don't charge, uh, award rates on a per segment basis. So like British Airways Avios, for example, every connection that you make, the cost of that trip in miles multiplies. Finnair just looks at the distance of your flight, so whether it's got, whether it's nonstop and it's 1,500 miles, or it's one stop with 1,500 miles or two or more, it's gonna be the same rate in the end. So that's the biggest thing to focus on. Yeah. Um, don't, I guess, write off, uh, programs like British Airways Avios because they can be useful for positioning flights, right? I mean, if you just need to get the flight from here to DFW, you're gonna get a flat rate for that if it's available, and that's a really good way to do it. So I wouldn't write off all the partner awards entirely. Yeah. Should we move on and, uh, talk about our final sponsor? Let's do it. This episode is sponsored by Fargo's Hector International Airport, the easy way to get away, fly nonstop to cities across the country, or connect to destinations around the world, all starting from Fargo. And the airport experience there just got even better. Hector's brand-new terminal expansion bring, brings more gates, more space, and amenities designed for every kind of traveler. You can let the kids burn off energy in the new children's play area, step into the immersive reality room and explore over 700 destinations before you even take off. And for travelers who need a quiet moment, the new sensory room offers a calm space to recharge. Getting there just got easier too, with a brand-new parking ramp with more spaces closer to the terminal and less stress before you even check in. Hector International Airport, the easy way to get away. Book your next flight at fargoairport.com. Okay, let's get into some smaller airport travel tips. Uh, I g- I guess before we do this, what's the best part about flying out of a small airport? Uh, there are a lot of good parts. Uh, the riding lawnmowers and pontoons- ... that I now assume are in every airport because if you're not, you're now just inferior. No, it's, it's convenience. It's nothing else. Yeah. It's... Uh, let me put it this way. I value the convenience of being able to get, A, get to an airport within 10 minutes or less from downtown, which you do not get at these major... I mean, think about how long it takes to get from Midtown Manhattan to either JFK or LaGuardia. That is, y- you need snacks for that trip To be able to get there in 10 minutes and know that you can arri- you can park your car or step out of the Uber and be ready to board and get at the airport within 30 minutes. That's incredible. That's invaluable. That is worth so much more to me than the nicest airport lounge in the world. Yeah. Uh, it is, it's definitely the parking situation. I won't say at which airport, and you'll see why in a minute, but my uncle used to, and maybe still does, he keeps an unlocked pickup truck in the parking lot of his, of the airport he lives near. So when anybody who comes in to visit him, He just says, "Yeah, I've got it in space G3." And I, I remember pulling up being like, "Is this for real?" And I just went and opened the door, and the keys were sitting there on the con- Not in the console, on the console. I was like, "This is very different than, uh, the situation that I came from," but Uh, what, what color truck, and what are the last three digits of the plate? Uh, sorry, Uncle Dave. I, I won't be giving out any more information than that. You just turned Dave into a Turo owner. It's a free Turo whenever you get there. Uh, okay, let's talk about this first tip. Um, on our pod, I've long been an evangelist for long connections, and that's because I hate airport stress, and I love airport lounges. Um, w- is it worth it to have lounge access if you, uh, fly out of a smaller airport that maybe doesn't have lounges? I think especially if you're listening to some of the advice that we've given already, especially with positioning flights, and you need to build that buffer before a big international trip. And it's like, okay, well, now I've got four or five hours to kill, and if you're at O'Hare, four or five hours, not enough time to get into town and have lunch or something like that. Uh, it's not, that's not a reality at most major international airports with long-haul international service. So I think that's where a lot of value comes in, where even if you don't have any airport lounges a- at your home airport, to be able to kill that kind of time and save money on, you know, obscenely expensive airport food, you can, you can save a lot of money that way, and spend that time pretty comfortably. Yeah. Just booking the longer layover is just something that I'm always willing to do, just because I can't do the sprint, the 90-minute Miami layover like you like to do. That, that's real sicko stuff. I can't do that. I have not gotten burned yet. So th- this is the thing. Do as I say, not as I do. I told everybody build at least a four-hour buffer, and then when push comes to shove, and I'm coming back from Tokyo or wherever, and there's an option to catch a flight after landing on a positioning flight back home with a 45-minute connection, I'm like, "Yeah, I can probably do it." That's ... I have never learned my lesson. Your belief in yourself is unbelievable. Maybe it's 'cause you didn't do as much losing as I did when I was younger. I had fewer concussions, same level of white boy confidence, I think is the key. Um, okay. So another good tip, the first flight of the day, we're a broken record on this, but just- How did, how did this work out for you in Lansing, though? Yeah, in Lansing I got burned, but, you know, freak snowstorm, and Dale did all he could. He, he tried. He tried. Um, don't leave things to chance. Most planes park at small regional airports overnight. Uh, the airlines like to keep them there so they don't have to park them at the busier airports. Uh, be on that first plane of the day, especially before a big international trip, or if it's something really important where you have to be there when the stakes are high. I just think this is one of our favorite tips. What's the earliest flight you've ever taken? I have been on so many 5:00 AM departures to Dallas for those positioning flights to give me a long enough for my purposes, uh, buffer before, uh, a connection. Uh, it's not fun. No, they're painful. What's your, uh, what, your pre-6:00 AM flight, what, what is your, uh, your plan of attack at the airport? What are you doing? Are you just a zombie straight to the gate? What do you need? Uh, a coffee. Okay. That's, that's it. That's it. That's all I need. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Pretty simple. Yep. All right. Um- Let's talk about one more tip for, you know, we, we talk about long layovers, and you mentioned earlier that overnight layovers are sometimes the play. Um, I find that these are really easy to use now, especially if you have a premium credit card or if you're, uh, one of the sickos out there, a few premium credit cards, because these one-nighter hotel credits are really, really helpful for this, for an airport overnight. Do you use these? Yeah, I- that's, that's how I use So all of the Delta Sky Miles credit cards, at least from the gold up to the platinum to the reserve, have as much as, I think, $200 a year. That could cover two airport, uh, hotels when you need them. I- that's how I use it every single year. I, I think the same now goes for the Chase Sapphire Preferred card, which used to have a $50 hotel credit. They touched up that card over the summer. Now it's $100. I mean, in many cases, that's gonna at least offset most of the cost of an overnight stay at just that, the hotel stay you need to be around the airport in order to make your connection the next day or finally make your way home. Yeah. I'd add the Capital One Venture X and its $300 travel credit. That's useful for that too, as, so long as you book through Capital One Travel, and then, um, with the World of Hyatt credit card, you get that category one through four night certificate, which is, uh, pretty easy to use at airports. That's a Hyatt Place almost every single time. So I end up using that as well. Um, but yeah, booking an overnight at or near a bigger airport without significantly adding to your costs, that's really crucial and a big part of this, I think. I would just say, like, there's a lot of these things that are just easy to forget about. I mean, I'm sure everybody who has a Delta Sky Miles card has forgotten and remembered and forgotten again that they have $100 or $150 to use on hotel credits. This is, like, why our team built our credit card benefit tracker, which is now, like, an online dashboard whi- which gives you visual reminders. You have this thing. It is worth 150, $200. Have you used it before your card renews? Yes or no? It's just, it's a good way to get you thinking about, oh, I need to figure out how to use this. I think that's the mindset that people need to be in for these kinds of savings. Yeah, really good. That's a lot of good tips. We think we did it? I ask them. Okay. Mission accomplished. Uh- Let's, let's help a listener. Um, after the episode is done here, we are going to do a live Q&A where you all can get your questions off. But for the episode record itself, we have two questions that were submitted to us from Anne, uh, and I really liked Anne's questions, so we're gonna- Anne ... we're gonna read them. Anne- Anne ... wave your hand again. Anne's right here. Anne. Yay. Thank you, Anne. Anne, do you wanna ask the question to the group, or would you like us to read them? Okay. Um, Anne's first question. When comparing award flights to Morocco last night, KLM wanted $360 in fees for every one-way ticket that I saw. Crazy, because Iberia had a cash flight for only $350 on the same day. So the question is, which airlines are increasingly passing on exorbitant fees to award travelers? Are there any award programs you would no longer use for this reason? What comes to mind for you? Uh, Air France KLM for, definitely for economy redemptions because on paper, you know, paying as few as 15,000 miles for a one-way to Europe i- in economy sounds really great. And then you look at the taxes and fees where the, it's close to or exceeding the cash value. Uh, you know, and if you wanna try and fly business class for 60,000 miles, those fees are now $500 in some cases. You know, for a $4,000 ticket and you have that money set aside that you would spend $500 on a, on a flight to Europe in economy, that's like, that works. The math doesn't math when it comes to economy, and I think that's increasingly true of Virgin Atlantic. Using Virgin Atlantic Flying Club points, which are so easy to use, they have the lowest rates. I mean, it's 29,000 points to fly business class, but oh, it's $700 for a one-way to London now. Those are the two biggest ones that come to mind. British Airways is in the mix as well. I mean, this is where for as tough as US airlines have made it to figure out what a flight should cost using miles, what they have done right is capped fees, where you're never paying more than just the mandatory taxes and fees when you're redeeming Delta Sky Miles, American Advantage Miles, United MileagePlus miles. Yeah. I would add Emirates to your list. Uh, Emirates taxes and fees- That's a good one ... have gotten totally outta control. And not a program, you mentioned British Airways, but just London in general . Taxes and fees when you depart London are so high. Uh, try to position out of there or buy a cash flight out of London if you can. Take the Chunnel over to France and then fly from Paris back home. You're gonna save, in some cases, $400 just in taxes and fees with that, you know, short trip across, uh, the Channel. Yeah. And most importantly, Anne, you nailed it. I mean, you did exactly what you should do. Like, get on Google Flights and see what they want for cash, and then don't let, uh, Air France police you on the taxes and fees. Um, Anne, your second question seemed a little pointed. Uh- Just a little. Okay. Anne's second question is, is Gunner still trying to claim that Chicago O'Hare is an acceptable airport? Um, so, uh, just to be clear, is Anne putting you on the spot in this episode? Yeah, it's, it feels like that. It feels like that. Uh, so my, my lawyers have asked me not to speak on this anymore actually. But they did provide me with a statement that I'll read for everybody here today. Um, it says, "We are aware of Mr. Olsen's previous statements about Chicago O'Hare International Airport being, quote, actually good, end quote, and have launched an internal investigation into the matter. It's clear Mr. Olsen's affection for the Terminal 5 Delta Sky Club, the newly opened LOT Polish Lounge, and the C Concourse United Polaris Lounge have colored his perception of the embattled airport. Mr. Olsen has vowed to reflect on these biases as he reconsiders his opinions of Chicago O'Hare. Mr. Olsen is currently scheduled to fly to and from O'Hare nine times before the end of 2026- which should prove humbling. We ask that you reserve judgment and allow him to learn this lesson the hardest way possible. And to close, Mr. Olsen's lack of remorse and subsequent doubling down on this take are regrettable, but we assure you it's uncharacteristic of his otherwise sterling reputation as a devoted husband- father, and travel journalist. So yeah, like my lawyer said, uh, I have nothing else to say on the matter. We're, we're gonna let the results take care of themselves as I go through O'Hare nine times the rest of the year. Oh, boy. It's gonna be a ride. I'm not, fortunately, Gunnar's lawyer. I am, however, his boss, and I will assure you all Gunnar will never learn his lesson about, about apparently anything. If you want us to answer your questions on the podcast or if you have any feedback for us, hit us up at podcast@thriftytraveler.com. We might feature your question on next week's show. And to close the show, as always, we go on the spot. Kyle got to put me on the spot in Minneapolis. I get to put you on the spot in Fargo. You ready? Don't ask me the question I asked you, please. I'm not. I'm not gonna ask you. Uh, it's a two-parter, of course. I'm taking some liberties. One, what is your favorite Fargo memory? Anything that stands out from your time here? Anything quintessentially Fargo that makes you remember this place? I met my wife here, so that's the, the only thing I can think of. I mean, I, yeah, I mean, we have so many, like, formative memories of our relationship. My apartment was, I don't know, a 10-minute walk from here in Island Park. And the amount of times that we walked together down this block as we were just getting to know each other, it's, it's, that is among... It's, I'm not gonna say that Fargo isn't a great place to visit, because it absolutely is, and I think everybody will love it, but that is the reason why I truly love this place. Yeah. Wow, that wasn't even the sentimental question. You ready for the sentimental question? Uh, what's your favorite Fargo beer? Situational and literal. Oh. Yeah. I want the situation beer like we did at the start, and I want what's your favorite Fargo beer? Uh, so my old coworker, Eric, in the crowd here, and I, uh, he got me into playing tennis, which I have unfortunately fallen out of. But like five times this summer, Ally and I are like, "We should play tennis again." I'm like, "Yeah, let's do it." And then we don't. Uh, but that, uh, he and I and a couple other of our coworkers at the time would play tennis like once a week. The, the beer in my fridge after playing tennis for an hour and a half is a very good Fargo beer. Okay. Yep. Uh, the actual best beer, oh, man. I mean, I think that both Drekker and Junkyard over in Moorhead are two of the best breweries, not just in North Dakota and Minnesota respectively, but the entire Midwest, and probably up there for the country for me personally. So I can't pick one right now. Um, everything that both of those breweries put out is so, so good. Amazing. Can't wait to try some. You really nailed that on the spot. That was pretty good. Thank you. Just so I- Yeah ... we don't cheat on this. No, we don't. This On the Spot is a sacred duty of the podcast. It is. It is sacred. Okay. Thank you so much for listening to The Thrifty Traveler podcast. Rate us five stars on your podcast platform of choice, like and subscribe to the show on YouTube, and send this episode to someone you know who needs a vacation. If you have feedback for us, send me a note at podcast@thriftytraveler.com. I would love to hear from you there. Kyle, tell us about the team. Who do we need to thank? Uh, we gotta thank our sponsors, Fargo's Hector International, North Dakota Tourism, and our presenting sponsor, Visit Fargo-Moorhead. A huge special just we can't say enough thanks to TEDxFargo, Greg, Sydney, and Liz, uh, and the rest of the Emerging Prairie team here at the Prairie Den for hosting us tonight. They, they did, they bent over backwards to make this happen. We are so, so appreciative to everybody for making this happen. Also, a huge shout-out to Drekker for providing beer and making amazing beer for everybody to enjoy tonight. Um, this event was organized by our amazing community manager, Kat, at the back of the room. Whoo, Kat. A special thanks to Alyssa and Jesse here at the front for volunteering and checking y'all in To our boss, founder, CEO of Thrifty Traveler, the reason why we're here, the guy who was foolish enough to let us do this, Jared This episode was, uh, recorded by Livewire. It was produced and edited by Sylvia Thomas, at least when people are listening to this later on, and, uh, b- edited for video by Kyle Thomas. Our theme music is by Benjamin Tissot. Guys, we're gonna have a live Q&A with y'all in a couple of minutes here. We're just gonna reset, get a drink of water, use the bathroom. Um, we'll talk to you in a couple minutes. See ya.