Kyle is out on vacation, so … Kyle is in - the younger, arguably cooler, and definitely taller Kyle, that is. Our podcast editor & social media guru, Kyle Thomas, joins Gunnar on the show to recap his recent flight in United’s new “Elevated” Polaris business class cabin over to London and answers the question: How does it stack up against his beloved Delta One? Plus, the guys talk through some troubling trends with American AAdvantage miles, and review some Resy/Tock news.
Kyle is out on vacation, so … Kyle is in - the younger, arguably cooler, and definitely taller Kyle, that is. Our podcast editor & social media guru, Kyle Thomas, joins Gunnar on the show to recap his recent flight in United’s new “Elevated” Polaris business class cabin over to London and answers the question: How does it stack up against his beloved Delta One? Plus, the guys talk through some troubling trends with American AAdvantage miles, and review some Resy/Tock news.
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00:00 - A different (& better) Kyle weighs in with a business class take
02:42 - Megan welcomes back the show from Charleston
03:24 - Something Hot: Avios are getting … easier to redeem?
05:18 - Another Something Hot: So are Amex dining credits?!
07:35 - Something Cold: The long-dreaded AAdvantage devaluation is underway
14:32 - A word from our sponsor: Monarch!
15:36 - The Extra Mile: Kyle pits United Polaris against Delta One
16:53 - Highlights & misses from United’s new “Elevated” Polaris biz class
31:20 - Final scorecard from United Polaris
31:32 - Kyle recaps the wins & losses from 10 (!!!) Delta One flights
42:09 - & a scorecard from Delta One
42:35 - And the final verdict is…
47:18 - A listener asks: Where to credit miles for a Lufthansa redemption?
51:58 - On the Spot: Tips to maximize a short stay
Produced and edited by Sylvia Thomas
Video editing by Kyle Thomas
Show music: “All That” by Benjamin Tissot
Yo, welcome to the show. I'm Gunner, and filling in for my usual co-host is the younger, cooler, and taller version of Kyle Potter. He's the video editor of our show, the brains behind Thrifty Traveler's social media. He travels more than you do. It's Kyle Thomas. Kyle, welcome back to the show. Thanks for having me back, Gunner. Today on the show, Kyle is fresh off of flying United's brand-new elevated Polaris seats to Europe, and having flown Delta One suites a few times recently too, I thought it was a good time to have you on to pit these against each other and just see as these two airlines battle for premium travel supremacy, we have kind of a firsthand look at, at the newest product from United and how it matches up with Delta One suites. Uh, plus we're gonna go over some evidence of the devaluation of American's AA Advantage program that's already begun, and we'll go over a new sweet way to find Avios award flights and use your Amex Resy credits. We have lots to get to, but first, Kyle, I need to find something out. You made the argument to all of us recently in the Extra Mile newsletter and on social media that it's not worth it to fly business class to Europe, but every time I look up, you're in a lie-flat seat to Europe. So what gives? Is, is business class to Europe worth it or not? You know, I just keep going back. I, you know, I never know if it's gonna be worth it. You know, sometimes it might be, other times it might not. No, uh, so the take that I deployed was that business class isn't worth it specifically when you're flying from the East Coast, uh, or, you know, central hubs like here at MSP. Uh, but I was flying, uh, United's P- Polaris out of San Francisco, uh, so that's a little bit longer of a flight. I have never flown to Europe from the West Coast before. Um, but, you know, on those East Coast flights, you know, you're looking at six, seven hours, uh, whereas from San Francisco to London, which was the route that I flew this past week, that's a 10-hour flight. And so my argument was that, you know, by the time that you're getting your meal service and by the time that you're finally actually winding down for sleep and the cabin's actually quiet, you've got three, maybe four hours to sleep. And so, you know, if you're spending, you know, thousands of extra dollars or miles on a flight like that, I don't really know if it's worth it, at least in my opinion. Uh, that g- that g- uh, math changes a little bit when, when you get over to the West Coast. I was able to get a full, you know, six hours of sleep. I felt much more rested. You're arriving a little bit later in the day when you get over to Europe typically, um, and so I thought that it was much more worth it going from the West Coast. Okay, well, that's good news for a guy like Moose flying premium economy to Europe today at a flight that leaves at 3:00 PM, which is criminal, should not be allowed. Uh, I'm gonna land before midnight Central Time when I get to Europe. That'll be a fun one. All right, today on the show, it's Delta One versus United Polaris, Resy and Tock, a new Avios calendar, and the beginning of the end for AA Advantage. All that and more. Hi, this is Megan coming to you from the Angel Oak Tree in Charleston, South Carolina. Welcome back to the Thrifty Traveler podcast Okay, welcoming us back this week was Megan from Charleston, South Carolina, the site of our Thrifty Traveler team retreat from two years ago. You just missed our last year's team retreat, Kyle. Are you ready for this year's edition in Mexico City? I am so excited for Mexico City. I've not been to Mexico yet, so, uh, gotta brush up on my Spanish now. There you go. We have, we have Kyle Potter to follow around, too. His Spanish is excellent, as is Peter Thornton's, so we have lots of people to follow. Uh, let's get into something hot. We have two Something Hots today. The first is gonna be this new Avios award calendar. Um, Avios is the shared points currency of British Airways, Iberia, Aer Lingus, and some others. Uh, it just did something I thought was maybe impossible in the world of modern points and miles. It just made it easier to find and book awards. Uh, I wrote in my notes here, "Pause for gasp," because this does not happen in points and miles anymore. We have constant bad news about programs making it harder to search for awards, but avios.com has made it easier. They have now a 12-month calendar to find nonstop awards on all three of those airlines. Uh, the days with availability pop up with a bright blue circle around them. You can just simply click on the day you want to use your points to fly, and they have filters for, you know, nonstop flights, for what day you wanna fly. It's, it's really nice. Notably, doesn't cover Finnair and Qatar Avios yet, but presumably, hopefully, that feature will extend to them sometime in the future. Uh, still, big positive change for Avios. Have you had a chance to look at this? What are your thoughts? Yeah, I have, and I mean, you know, who would've thought that stuff would get easier? One of the, o- one of the common things we hear from people is that, you know, "I've got all these miles. I just can't use them. It's, it, you know, it's hard to find award availability." Um, and so to have this much easier calendar to, to look at flights, uh, I think is going to be a big change. Uh, I've not booked flights with Avios yet, but, uh, certainly a program that, that I have, you know, I have all the accounts set up. Whenever I see a good deal, I'm ready to, uh, jump on it. I would like to, uh, to see them add Qatar. I would, uh, I would love to fly Qatar's Qsuites. Um, and so if this tool makes it a little bit easier for people to book, uh, I, I'm all for it. Yeah. User-friendly changes to an award program. I can't believe I'm saying it. Crazy idea. Um, how about more good news? Th- this is weird. This feels weird for us. Um, if you're carrying the Amex Platinum, the Amex Gold, or a Delta SkyMiles American Express credit card, those come with those sometimes pesky Resy dining credits that are sometimes, you know, 10 bucks a month or, or whatever. The Platinum and Gold cards have those bigger quarterly, uh, credits that you get to use. Those are gonna get easier to use next month. Um, that's because Tock restaurants, including some wineries and some experiences, are now appearing on the Resy dining app this week, uh, bringing the rivals Resy and Tock together under Amex's ownership. Most importantly, that means- Your Resy credits are going to work at Toc Restaurants, but not until September 15th when this all goes into effect. Um, I don't know about you, Kyle. My favorite restaurant in Minneapolis, the Bungalow Club, right in my neighborhood, is a Toc Restaurant. I can't wait for this to take effect. This makes my, uh, my Resy credit much, much more valuable overnight. Are you excited about this? I am so excited. Uh, we've... Especially here in Minneapolis, we've got a great food scene. Uh, and so I was, I was looking at the calendar or the, the map right before this, and we've practically doubled the number of restaurants that are eligible for this credit. Uh, and so I'm super excited to branch out, try to try some new restaurants. Uh, my favorite that, uh, was on the list before, uh, is Hai Hai in Minne- uh, in Uptown. Uh, Chef Christina Nguyen, she's a, a James Beard Award winner. Um, they've got super great food there. And so to have, to have more places that people can use this credit easily, you know, I've got both the Amex Gold. I lo- I, I do like that $50 semi-annual. It's much better than the, the monthly $10 credit. Like w- you know, I can get a, a, an appetizer with that. Thanks, Amex. Yeah. Uh, no, this is super great. I know a lot of people that, you know, maybe don't live near as big of a city, now all of a sudden have a lot more options that they can go to. Um, and so this makes this credit a lot more accessible for people to use. Yeah. It's gonna be great. I, I'm excited. If you live in a city that has some Resy restaurants, but maybe it's not up to your liking, take another look at the map coming September 15th. You might have a few more options for you to use. Uh, let's pivot to something cold. It was getting too rosy for too long. That's not like us. It can only last so long. Uh, let's talk about, um- What we're perceiving as the beginning of a devaluation of American's AA Advantage program. Uh, for years now, we've wondered if this was coming because American's program has just seemed too good to be true. We've been kind of bracing for it, like bracing for the day when American jacks up all of these award rates to more closely match what, you know, is becoming a higher industry standard. W- You see it from the other airlines already. Um, our colleagues at Thrifty Traveler Premium laid out the case that this has quietly already started. Uh, I, of course, wrote this up for our website and took all the credit for it, but this is the brainchild of Katie Rollins, Peter Thornton, and John Schelb that are on our, our premium team. Here's the case they made to me. Um, one, they acknowledge that there's still some incredible redemptions in the American program right now. Uh, case in point, booking Japan Airlines business class for 60,000 miles each way to Tokyo is pretty amazing. Uh, it's really hard to beat that in points and miles. Maybe the best deal in points and miles. But there is evidence that that is changing a little bit. You no longer get to tack on a connection with American Airlines to book into a hub that then you can then fly Japan Airlines business class over for that same 60,000-mile rate. There's now a 20,000-mile penalty to book that connection. So if I wanted to fly from, say, Sioux Falls to Chicago to book Chicago to Haneda on Japan Airlines business class, I'm looking at 80,000 miles instead of 60,000 miles. That is a relatively new change. Uh, another, uh, data point here, just two years ago, you used to be able to book American's own business class flights to Europe for 50,000, 55,000 miles each way, excuse me. It then spiked to 65,000 miles each way. Now, if you look at the same, those lowest rates are gonna be 77,000 miles each way. That's a pretty significant uptick over the last year and a half, two years as well. And then finally, um, American is just not the go-to place to book business class awards with its partners anymore. Uh, it used to be, you know, in the past two years, you could book, uh, Qatar Qsuites, you could book Cathay Pacific business class, you could book Iberia and Qantas business class. All of that award space that they used to get from their partners has now almost completely dried up too, to the point where if we find American partner award space anywhere except for Japan, I think, is still the last one where we're able to find it, um, we almost always send out a unicorn alert to our members because it is so exceedingly rare. And then all those other partners, their, like, niche partners, um, are limiting AA to just one seat per flight. So it's getting harder to book something for yourself and your spouse or your friend. It's really just solo flights if you're lucky. So Kyle, I have two theories here. I want you to react to each one. Maybe posit your own theories if you have them. Um- I guess, one, American is doing this because nearly every other airline program is also devaluing its points, so, like, why, why shouldn't AA do the same? If Delta and United are offering 90,000 or more for the same routes, in some cases way more, uh, with both United and Delta, why shouldn't AA? What do you think about this argument, that they're just trying to keep up with the times, I guess? Yeah, I mean, to a certain extent they have to. I, I, I think especially lately, this industry has been very copycat when you look at, you know, what airlines are trying to do in terms of the seats that they're offering. You know, when you look at pretty much every airline right now, the buzzword is premium. And so to, uh, to, uh, keep up with other airlines in other aspects, because they know that it's working. They know that people will pay these higher prices because, you know, that's what they're accustomed to. They wanna have these nicer seats. They wanna have better service, and if, uh, as a result, they pay a few thousand more miles They're going to and probably not bat an eye. You know, at least for most people, you know, people like you and I are gonna, uh, complain about it a little bit more, knowing what could have been, uh, and what still is and, you know, trying to, you know, still hold onto those, those redemptions, uh, for as long as we can. Yeah, here's what, I just thought of this now, but I, I wonder if, uh, because, uh, we've seen an influx of people into points and miles in the last several years, so I'm sure there are some OGs out there banging their head against their steering wheel listening to us talk about these rates, being like, "I used to be able to fly business class for 40,000." Okay, that doesn't exist anymore. It has barely existed to most people who are into this and to the massive influx of people who got into points and miles during and after the pandemic, those rates are unconscionable. So for them, like, there's just a new baseline of what they're willing to pay and, of course, all these new ways to earn points, which brings me to my second point. There are just simply way more American miles out there than ever before. Uh, AA's new credit card partnership with Citi, um, making Citi a transfer partner and then immediately after that relationship started, Citi launching the Citi Strata Elite card with 100,000 point bonus right off the bat. Uh, I think that filled up a lot of AA advantage accounts. That's certainly what I used my Citi Strata Elite bonus on. It all went straight to American Airlines to book flights, uh, in the last year. And then AA came out with a new co-branded card option, too. Um, this is just pointsflation, right? This, I despise that word. I, but, uh, Kyle, Kyle Powder's not here, so I'm gonna try and get it through the filters. Uh, but this is just too many points out there, and American just needs to raise rates to recoup some of that cost, I guess. Yeah, I mean, I'll, I'll kind of agree with you, but I'm also gonna push back a little bit here, uh, mainly just because, um, American isn't a, a system that I have personally got into, and all of my points that I've earned are in Amex and Chase and Atmos. Uh, and so I feel like those points are a little bit easier to earn, uh, especially, especially when you think about Amex and how you can earn extra points using Rakuten. I lo- I love Rakuten so much. Um, but I feel like you can earn those points a lot easier, and so- In the same way you need to spend more points, uh, in order to redeem them. Uh, whereas, uh, A- Advantage miles, a little bit harder to earn, uh, so those points are gonna be a little lower. So I don't think it's gonna be as transformational as a change. You know, I don't know if we're gonna see, you know, 100,000 Advantage miles to fly to Japan anymore. Uh, but I do certainly think there are going to be some changes. Um, I'm certainly looking at, you know, the Citi Strata Elite or these other cards that do offer it, because I do, uh, still see the value that, uh, Advantage miles have. But, uh, I guess time will see. I'll stick with the points that I currently have. I need, I need to use up some of those points. I need to, uh, I need to, uh, avoid that pointsflation. Good problems to have, Kyle Thomas. Okay, let's get into the meat of the show, the showdown between Delta One and United Polaris. But first, we're gonna take a quick break Okay, it's time for The Extra Mile, where we dig a little deeper on the important travel topics of the week, inspired, as always, by our awesome Extra Mile newsletter that hits your inboxes every weekday morning. Uh, okay, last time you were on, Kyle, uh, it was episode 61 of this podcast. It was titled How to Earn One Million Points and Fly Delta One. We recorded that because I, like many others, just wanted to know how you, a 23-year-old, can afford to fly Delta one so very often. The answer, of course, is that you're just really good at maximizing your spend. You have a small photography business that you earn a lot of Amex membership rewards on because you use things like Rakuten. You transfer a lot of miles to Delta to book Delta one deals using your SkyMiles, which are m- more and more prevalent and are becoming easier and easier to find. Uh, a question for you. How many Delta one flights have you flown in your life? I've now flown Delta one 10 times. Jesus Christ. Uh, six using SkyMiles, two using Air France Flying Blue miles, uh, and then two cheap cash upgrades. Okay. And then how many United Polaris flights have you flown? This was my very first one last week. This was your first one. Yeah. Okay. Good. I have two regular United Polaris experience, not elevated. Um, but I think we've got a pretty good handle on the situation. So let's start with United because it's fresh in your mind. Let's go through the experience category by category. I want you to rate each part of these out of 10, and we'll do a cumulative score at the end. And Kyle, as you edit this, feel free to throw in whatever photos and videos you have of your, of your reviews and your experiences too. So if you're watching on YouTube, you can get a real sense of how this looks as well. So let's start with United Polaris, the redemption itself. What did you book it for, and how did you book it? Yeah, so I flew from, uh, San Francisco to London. I paid 72,000 United miles, as well as $5.60 in taxes and fees. Uh, one note that in order to get this, uh, 72,000 mile saver rate, you do need to have a United co-branded credit card or, uh, you need to hold United status, um, in order to get this lower rate. Otherwise, it would have been 200,000 United miles. Uh, it's one of these big trends, um, both, uh, Delta does this as well, where you really need to have a, a co-branded credit card in order to get access to either expanded award availability or just these cheaper rates, um, just to make their credit cards a little bit more lucrative. I expect to see that continue into the future with more airlines. Uh, so even if you don't fly United a lot, but, you know, you want to fly, uh, Polaris every once in a while- Get that co-branded credit card, you know, their lowest tier. It's, uh, what, 150 bucks a year. I think the first year the annual fee is waived. Uh, and so with that, you know, you also get free checked bags, you get other things. Um, but to, uh, to save a little bit more, um, on, on a redemption I think is really worth it. Yeah. When I'm under 524 sometime in the mid-2030s, I'm, I'm gonna pull the trigger on one of these cards for sure. Um, okay, so what would you rate this redemption, uh, given that you have to have a co-branded card for that best rate? Um, that is still a really good deal at 72,000 United miles each way. What do you think? Yeah, it's, it's still a good deal. You know, even as much as, as we tout, you know, the Delta One deals that we've seen recently, it's still a lower rate than those Delta One deals are. You know, the most recent deal we sent out was 106,000 Delta Sky miles. That's with that y- uh, take 15 off discount with Delta. Uh- But just because you do need, uh, a card to get this deal, so often we don't send it out to our Thrifty Traveler Premium members just because otherwise you're paying 200,000 miles. I'm gonna give it a 7 out of 10. Still great redemption, but a little bit gatekeeped for, for most people. Of course. Okay, a 7. That s- that seems very fair. Um, let's talk about the airport experience. That's gonna be our next, our next category here. So I'm talking about, like, the check-in, the lounge. How were things at San Francisco? Yeah, super nice. My first time at SFO. Uh, the, the check-in, I'm gonna say, it's just at a, you know, a standard check-in. It's, you know, nothing like the, uh, the private Delta One check-ins that Delta has at their hubs. Um, you know, short lines, good service, but, you know, nothing special. Uh, then we get into the lounge. First time experiencing the United Polaris Lounge. Uh, I thought it was a very nice space. I, I got there around f- um, 4:00 PM. I had a, a 7:30 boarding time. I got there a little bit early so I could, you know, scope out everything. Uh, it was strangely empty. Like, I'm, I was in a one of, you know, it's a, it's a two-floor lounge. Um, I was up on the second floor. There was not a single person. Like, I'm recording a video. Uh, you'll see this later. I'll have the full, uh, YouTube video come out shortly, but I, I'm standing in the Polaris Lounge and I am the only person there. I was like, "Where is everybody else?" Like- It makes you feel nervous, right? Like, "Am I in the wrong terminal?" Yeah. Like, "Where is everybody?" No, it just turns out everybody was downstairs, um, hanging out, so it was kinda nice. Had my own, uh, my own private lounge. Yeah, I, I remember my two experiences flying Polaris were both out of Chicago O'Hare. Have you ever heard of it? Mid-continent hub in the middle of the country. You can see the whole world from one airport if you're special . We really need to get a, a, uh, we're, we're calling it the O'Hare No Button. The O'Hare Button coming soon. Um, the Polaris Lounge there, like, is actually probably why I hold O'Hare in such high regard, just because I've been to that lounge several times and I really loved it. It's, it's just a good experience. It's solid. They give you, you know, you get the dining experience, which is included and, um, I just really liked it there and it, it is quiet and I've always had some fun bartenders at, at Polaris Lounges too, so that always helps, too. Yeah. Uh, the, you know, the, the food was, there was great. Uh, I was just, uh, sitting around and all of a sudden somebody comes around and sh- uh, she's got a plate of sushi and she goes, "You want some sushi?" I go, "Yeah, I want some sushi." Uh, but I went i- one thing, I went into the restaurant, I ordered the scallops as my starter. I kid you not, 15 seconds later they came out. So I was like, "All right, are we really, like, cooking to order here?" They're still very good, uh, but like, uh, you know- Not, maybe not as advertised Maybe not completely made to order? Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, you know, still some very, very solid food. Uh, they have lots of grab-and-go options. You're, you're not gonna go hungry when you're stepping into a Polaris lounge. Uh, they've also got showers. They've got these private nap pods. Uh, so if you've, you know, you got a long layover, you got a, a nice place to relax that's nice and quiet. Um, I would definitely say not as premium-feeling as a, a Delta One lounge. Um, I don't know, I just thought that the layout, it felt just more like a, you know, a standard, um, United Club or a, a Delta Sky Club. Um, I, I would say more the amenities were what really elevated it, just the, the overall vibe and look of the lounge just felt more like a standard lounge to me, especially when you compare it to other international carriers and their, and their lounges. Nice. Okay, what's your rating on the airport experience overall? Also gonna give this one a 7 out of 10. Great. Uh, pretty good experience overall, but, you know, a few things that could've been a little more elevated if, if that's what United wants to call all of this. Cool. Okay. Um, let's talk about the seat itself once we're on board, what in the industry we call the hard product. You might be, you might have heard that term from time to time versus the soft product, which is the service and food. That's our next category, but tell me about the seat, the elevated seat. Yeah, I love this seat. Uh, I think it's a really, uh, nice product. It still had that new plane smell. Uh, this seat's only been flying for a few months now, and so, uh, yeah, super nice product. The seat is very soft. I thought that there's a lot of, you know, storage and space to put all your stuff. Uh, these seats all have large 4K screens, uh, which are super nice, especially compared to the older ones that I've seen. Uh, super crisp, very immersive in-flight entertainment. Um, there is also an option, and I'll throw this in here, the United Polaris Studio. Uh, so in, there are two full United Polaris cabins on this plane, 32 in the front and then 32 in the middle. Um, and then the front row of each of these cabins have these United Polaris Studios. They're about 25% larger, uh, than a regular Polaris seat. Uh, you actually have space to have someone sitting next to you if you wanna dine, um, and then they also, uh, come with a lot of other things, but, uh, with those ones you get an even larger f- uh, 4K screen. Um, and so- Very nice seat. Uh, one thing I will say, I thought the footwell was quite narrow. Um, these seats are staggered at an angle, um, which I know Delta and their new Delta One suites that are coming up, uh, next year will also have that, uh, that angled herringbone layout. Um, but yeah, super nice. Uh, I think, uh, it'll- time will tell as to how this seat, uh, will hold up in compare to other airlines. Did it-- How was the tech? Did it have any of the, like, the wireless charging or anything like that? Yeah, they've got a, a wireless charging pad. You can, you know, connect your headphones, uh, via Bluetooth. Nice. I d- I did find when I w- when I had my AirPods connected, uh, every once in a while, uh, it would become really crackly. Um, and so I would have to put my headphones back in the case and then put them back, uh, in my ear, and then they ended up being fine. Um, but, uh, that's a feature that I really love, you know, especially because, you know, even I don't really like their headphones. You know, I don't, I don't think they're... They're nice, but that's als- also because that I, I use really nice headphones. You know, when you work in social media and video and audio, you wanna work with nice high-quality headphones. So maybe I notice that a little bit more, uh, than, uh, another, uh, passenger might, but uh, that's a n- super nice feature. They have that all the way back to economy. Everybody can connect their headphones, uh, v- via Bluetooth. Uh, so that's a super nice feature that I love. Awesome. Okay, your verdict on the hard product, what is your, your ranking? Yeah, I'm gonna give this one a nine out of 10. Super nice seat, but, uh, again, as I noted, uh, that footwell is a little bit, uh, smaller. Uh, if you, uh, you know, um, want to, uh, upgrade to that, uh, Polaris Studio, uh, the, the footwell is massive, plenty of space to spread out. Uh, so if that's a concern to you, uh, I would maybe consider upgrading to that for that. Um, on my route, it was $499 one way. Um, yeah, I'd consider it next time. Nice. Okay, let's move on to the service and food. I think most people who've heard of United Polaris kinda equate it with maybe the food being lackluster. Uh, I know the first time I flew it, that was certainly the case. The second time, I felt like it got better. And then also, I'm curious about the service because you said 32-- two cabins of 32 business class seats. How long did it take you to get fed? Yeah, so this was, this was actually something I explicitly put to the test. I put myself in the very last row, row 17. I am halfway over the wing at this point. Ha- and half of this entire plane is business class. Um, and I, I sat myself at the back, one, just because I was recording content and I didn't wanna bother other fellow paying passengers. Uh, but two When you're putting 64 business class seats, uh, on a single plane and you have to deliver a business class experience to 64 people, I think there were 60 people in business class on this flight, that takes a lot of effort. Uh, it took, uh, from the time that the, the first person in the Polaris studio got served to the time that I got served, uh, it was about 20 minutes. Um, and, you know, when you add that up over a few, uh, different rounds of, you know, the appetizer and drinks and the main meal service, that adds up quite fast, and so that cuts into your sleep time. Um, and so, you know, not a knock on the flight attendants at all, but, like, uh, more just a, a reflection of United. You know, it's the execs that are pushing for all these premium seats, and now, you know, these flight attendants are expected, uh, to deliver, you know, high class service to this many people. It's not easy to do. Yeah. Uh, and so, um, you know, with that, you know, I had to ask several times that, you know, they didn't come with the dressing for my salad or they, you know, forgot to give bread, and there were a few other things that were missing from my tray that they had to come back a few times, but, you know, they gotta check on all these other passengers. And so, uh, certainly if you're, if you're wanting to have faster service, sit up towards the front of the cabin. Uh, also make sure that you're pre-ordering your meal. Um, had I not pre-ordered my meal, they would've been out of several options. Uh, you can't pre-order the appetizer, and so when I- when they got back to me, two out of the three appetizer options were gone. Uh, so if you want some of those things, be sure to pre-order, but, um- It's like, uh, yeah, do you want the fish steak or the vegetarian? We only have the fish. Yeah. One of those. It's just like, "Oh, thanks. Cool." Um, how was the food itself? Uh, overall thought it was very decent. Uh, I ordered the, uh, the, the braised beef, which I've had a, a similar product on Delta. Thought it was very good. The one, the one piece that stood out to me, uh, giving Delta a run for their money is their ice cream sundae. Uh, I love Delta's ice cream sundae. Uh, one of the complaints that I made is the last time I flew, they didn't bring out the dessert cart. They just go back and make it for you. I like it when they make it in front of you. Uh, with United, they did bring out the dessert cart, so you can, uh, you can see everything that they have. Um, and I went back and I was talking to the flight attendants, and I was like, "Yeah, I usually fly Delta. This is my first time flying Polaris, but I really love the ice cream sundae." And strangely enough, it was because one of the toppings that they have are mini chocolate chips. I don't, uh, I don't know why they're so much better than regular chocolate chips or, uh, uh, you know, chocolate sauce. But at the same time, the flight attendant and I were like, "It's the mini chocolate chips, isn't it?" Like, we were same brain, uh, same, uh- Same wave length, uh, but, uh, super good, super good ice cream sundae. I, I, I'd go back to Polaris just for that. Okay. All right, so I, I need the rating on the service and food. You know, they, they didn't bring you your salad dressing, but they hit you with the mini chocolate chips. It seemed like they may have turned you at the end. Yeah, you know, some of those things cancel out, you know- ... sugar me up at the end. Um, but you know, it is, it is hard to, to get, to get a good service for all those people. Um, so I'm gonna give that a six out of 10 there. Okay. All right, this next, this last category I have in here as a bit of a catch-all, and you can kinda make this whatever you want. I'm just calling it the vibe check. When you got off the flight, how did you think it was? What, you know, what, how did it feel to you? How was the vibes in United Polaris Elevated? Yeah, vibes were good. Vibes were up. Uh, I, I overall really enjoyed this flight. Um, you know, to be able to get a good amount of sleep on a flight, uh, and then arrive in London in the afternoon. One thing they do offer, uh, at London Heathrow is they do have a arrivals lounge for United passengers. Uh, you do have to arrive, uh, before noon. My flight landed around 2:00 PM, which is what my scheduled, uh, flight time was. Um, so I wasn't able to experience the arrivals lounge. Um, but I thought, you know, you're able to arrive really refreshed. Uh, love this seat. It's a very, you know, spacious, good-looking seat. Uh, and so I'm gonna give this an 8 out of 10 for the vibe. Okay, an 8 out of 10 for the vibe, which will put us at a 37 overall. So you got eight for vibes, you had a six for service and food, you gave the seat a nine, the airport experience a seven, and the redemption a seven. Okay, let's turn to your beloved Delta One and see how it stacks up. Of course, now you're using, you know, years of Delta One flights. You're kinda using, uh, uh, 10 different Delta One flights to inform this, so it might be, uh, a little weighted in this way, but, um, talk about your Delta One redemptions. What were, I mean, I guess, how would you give the redemptions that you've made lately? Yeah, I mean, uh, if we wanna compare directly going to London, um, I flew from Minneapolis to London, uh, on that. I didn't book using miles. I paid cash, uh, and then got an, uh, a paid upgrade to Delta One. Uh, so for that I had, uh, it was, uh, a few weeks out, uh, had an upgrade, uh, for $1,099 to go from main cabin up to Delta One. Uh, you know, that, that route can easily go for thousands more. So, uh, and in that case specifically, I was looking to, to spend that extra dollars to hit platinum status on Delta, which I have used very extensively throughout this past year. Uh, you know, those automatic Comfort Plus upgrades and everything else that comes with it, I find valuable. But, you know, cer- uh, a thousand bucks is certainly not, you know, something just to, you know, throw money at. But I've gotten more value out of that, so for me it was worth it. Um- But, you know, when you look at other redemptions like I had going to Australia, uh, I paid around 120,000 Delta Sky Miles, which included a first class connection from Minneapolis to Los Angeles, and L- Los Angeles down to Brisbane. Um, and so that mileage cost is going to be a little bit more, uh, than what this lowest rate on, on, uh, United is. Again, here I'm, I'm comparing the lowest rates that you can book at because, you know, both United and Delta, you know, they can easily charge you hundreds of thousands of miles for a route. But as I said earlier, I can earn American Express points, which I can then transfer to Delta and, you know, I also have co-branded Delta credit cards, so I feel like I can earn those miles a little bit easier. Uh, so I would actually kinda consider them pretty even. Mm-hmm. Um, uh, and so for that rating, I would, uh, give it an eight out of 10, um, just because I feel like, I mean, I've got a lot of Amex and, and Delta miles right now, like I need to, I need to go book something, but I find the best value out of those, in those, those big international Delta One real long haul flights. Um, and so, yeah, I, I really like it. I think it's a good rating, especially considering that I think it is easier to earn Amex points than Chase points, the Chase points that transfer to United and the Amex that transfers to Delta, and the ability to include the connections I think is a crucial part of that. We talked about it in the Something Cold, AA is now starting to charge a little extra for their connections, whereas Delta, when they run these flash sales, they say, "All right, we've got almost 200 Delta airports in the country and everyone's getting the same rate." And that's, that's really impressive. That's really helpful as well, getting that first class connection to the long haul flight. So an eight for the redemption. Tell me about, uh, the airport experience, Delta One check-in and your Delta One lounges. Yeah, especially when you're flying out of a, a Delta hub like here at MSP, we've got a private Delta One check-in, uh, which is super nice. When you go to LAX or JFK, you then get, uh, added private TSA on top of it, which is super nice. You don't even have to, you don't even have to touch gen pop. Uh, super nice. Uh, no, you- you'll, you'll find me there on my next flight. I promise, w- you know, when we were talking earlier, uh, let's see. I've been to Europe three times this summer. All the other flights have been, uh, economy. We did have one where we did get a, a cheap upgrade to premium economy. That was for my birthday, though, so, uh, uh, cut, cut me, cut me some slack here, people. Kyle's working class bona fides, everyone. He has flown economy this year. Uh, all right, sorry. The Delta One lounge. I've, I, uh- Ugh ... I cut you off. I love a Delta One lounge. Um, I've been to both, uh, LAX and JFK. Uh, very excited to have one come to MSP here in a few years if, you know, if that ever happens. You know, we, we know it's coming, uh, but, you know, they don't, they don't, they don't really care about us here at, at, uh, at, uh, at these, uh, fortress hubs, as we call them, where Delta's the only competition, and so they have no pressure to, to give us something extra. But, uh- Um, I, I, I love the food offerings. It's, they're, they're super well-designed. Uh, I'm not gonna use the word curated or- Those, those buzzwords. Bespoke? There's nothing bespoke about it? Uh, no. Super, super great experience. Uh, I love, I love Delta's staff, you know, from the ground to their flight attendants to their pilots. I think Delta does a really great job there. A little bit over United. Uh, check-in and lounge, I'm gonna give this one a nine out of 10. Okay. Yeah, I think that's warranted given the specialty check-in, which is something I've never actually gotten to use, but hopefully someday, uh, when I grow up to be like Kyle Thomas, I'll figure out my way into a Delta One check-in situation. Let's talk about the seat. Um, uh, we'll compare Delta One suites. I know Delta does, Delta One does have a new product that is coming at some point. We don't know exactly when. Some point later this year. Yeah. Uh, so we guess that'll be the apples to apples comparison when that does eventually come out. But for right now, we have the Delta One suites, which you've definitely flown. Uh, tell us about the hard product and how it compares to the Polaris one. Yeah, so, uh, in, in this case, I'm gonna be comparing Delta's newest product to United's newest product. Uh, both Delta and United h- both have very old, ancient products. I think that's one thing United does a little bit better. Uh, they do have some terrible seat- They have, like, a, they're still flying a, a 2-4-2 layout, uh, with some seats backwards on some- Oh, yeah. The seats that face each other. Yeah. The, the awkward seats. And, like, you know, you're still crawling over somebody to get to your seat. Uh, don't know if I'd consider that premium. You know, Delta's also got some ancient seats that they fly, especially on some very premium routes, uh, which is kind of absurd that they, uh Especially at the, the prices they charge. But in this case, comparing their newest ones, uh, this would be on Delta's A330-900NEOs, as well as their A350-900s. But next year, when they get their A350-1000s, uh, they will be coming out with an entirely new business class product. Uh, super excited to, uh- To try that one out, but, uh, I do like this seat. Uh, I know you say that you don't, uh, like, uh, or you don't need a door, uh, on a business-class product. Sure, it does take away maybe, you know, an inch or two, uh, from the actual seat, but I do enjoy that privacy. Uh, United, on these new seats, they do have a, a closing door, but they haven't ef- actually been officially approved by the FAA yet. Uh, and so the entire flight, I had the sight line of my neighbor's bare feet. Uh, we haven't e- we, like, still during boarding, he already had taken his shoes off, uh, and so I didn't have the option to, uh, to, uh, shut him out. Um, but this seat I do really like. I, I prefer having my seat straight on versus the, the angled version. Um, but I know these newer seats will have, uh, the angled herringbone layout coming to it. Um, the, uh, the in-flight entertainment certainly not as good as this new United Polaris. You know, these current Delta One suites just have a 1080p screen, no Bluetooth headphone option. Um, but overall, it, you know, they've still got lots of options, uh, for the in-flight entertainment, um, just not up to what, uh, United is currently offering. We know that'll change. They're gonna get four scr- 4K screens on this next gen, uh, of Delta One suites. But, uh, overall, I'm gonna give this an eight out of 10. I think they're very comfortable. I know some people think that, especially after a long flight, these seats can get hard. They changed them to a cloth seat, uh, which I know people have said has a little bit more of a cushion, uh, to make it a little bit better. Actually, I haven't flown that, that new variation, uh, but when, uh, more of these seats come out, I think, uh, people will enjoy flying them a lot better than these old ones. Nice. Okay, um, let's talk about the service and the food, the soft product. Uh, we know that there has been a, a new king crowned in the ice cream race in business class. Uh, you cannot impress Kyle Thomas unless you make his ice cream- ... in front of him. Uh, I guess you can also include the fact that you had a, a sight line onto someone's feet, uh, in this. You know, usually you have to pay extra for that, so you got that one for free. Congratulations. Uh, service and food, the soft product. Yeah. Uh, I think this is actually somewhere where Delta has been, uh, improving a lot more, especially when you consider against other carriers. Uh, I'd say still lacking behind, you know, international carriers. Uh, I've had a, a really great experience on a lot of other airlines. My most underrated one was actually Aer Lingus. Uh, you know, Aer Lingus has a very standard business class seat. Uh, I flew them last week coming home. Super sad that they're leaving MSP here, but I was stunned by their catering. I thought it was super, super good. Um- But I do think Delta has been getting a lot better at their catering. They've been doing a lot more partnerships with, uh, chefs, uh, in local cities, uh, to offer, um, really local, uh, high-quality food. Um, and I do, I do think Delta's service and food, uh, is definitely a step above United, uh, at the moment. Um, I'm gonna give this one, uh, an 8 out of 10 as well Okay. And finally, your vibe check for Delta One, the whole experience, how'd you feel getting off that plane? Yeah. Uh, I mean, I lo- I love, uh, Delta One overall, uh, f- you know, from ground to the onboard experience. I think they do a lot of things right. Uh, it's just a matter of, you know, do you get that old seat versus the newer suites that they've got? Um, and so, you know, it can vary a little bit, uh, but I do think they're a little bit more consistent in terms of that overall vibe. Uh, so overall vibe check, I'm gonna give a nine out of 10. Um, you know, living in an, uh, living in a Delta hub, you know, we've got a lot more direct options, uh, flying out of MSP, but, you know, their, their prices have gotten a lot more expensive lately, uh, just because, you know, there's not a lot of competition, so we are kinda forced into that option. Um, and so, uh, that's where, that's where I'm gonna give them the knock. I think they do a lot of great things right, but, uh, you know, let us, let us have some other airlines here. Let, let me see what else is out there. I know that's not what you want- ... but, you know, that's what, that's what I, I want here, and I want other people to have more options than to just fly Delta. I know. Delta, just let us live. You're so obsessed with us, it's so annoying. All right. Uh, Delta One redemption, you gave an eight, the airport experience, you gave a nine, the hard product, the seat, you gave an eight, the service and food was also an eight. You gave it a nine on the vibe check for an overall score of 42. I hope that is correct and my live math made the cut. So you did clearly rate Delta a little higher. But when you factor in what you paid for each, how easy those points are to earn, and the entire experience, kinda break it down for us. What is your final analysis of the comparison between Delta One Suites and this United Elevated product? Yeah, I mean, first, when you talk about, you know, how much I paid for each of these, you know, with United, paying with miles, uh, you can only earn United miles through United, uh, such as a United card. You can also transfer from Chase. Uh, and the same with Delta. You can only earn Delta miles through Amex or on a Delta card. But again, I'd say you can earn, uh, Amex points a little bit easier. Uh, so those I'd consider, uh, pretty even. Um, and then, you know, overall, the overall experience, I still think Delta is better. United is certainly catching up. Uh, you know, these, I think we've only got, like, five of these planes that currently have this new configuration. Uh, they're gonna get a lot more deliveries. They're gonna start retrofitting a lot of their existing planes. Uh, and so they're certainly catching up. We're gonna start seeing these planes flying out of Houston in the coming months, uh, getting over to more destinations in Europe and South America. Uh, and so I think as, uh, United, uh, gets more and more of these seats, I think time will tell But right now I have, uh, my real winner, uh, as business class, just plain business class because that is where United and Delta are putting all their focus and effort. You know, newer suites, bigger cabins. Now Delta had actually just announced they're gonna have a high-J configuration of their A330neos. They're gonna be offering more business class than what they currently do. Uh, so then that puts the real loser as economy passengers. I am sitting in row 17 on this United flight, and I look halfway up the plane, I see the front, and I look halfway back, and I see the very back of the plane. And it felt kinda weird to be sitting in business class, but to be that close to the back of the plane. Um, and you know, they're really squeezing out economy passengers here, which means that, you know, you're probably not gonna find as good of cash fares and, uh, you're gonna need to, um, to h- to have more, more money or more miles in order to get on these flights. Now, obviously, these are more premium-configured planes for routes like San Fran to London that do have more premium demand, more business class passengers. Uh, but there's just less options for economy passengers. We're get- they're, they're getting squeezed out. I mean, in total there are 99 premium seats on this new United pl- uh, U- U- new United plane. Uh, so yeah, just squeezing out economy passengers. That's, that's amazing. It, it is wild to see the business class seats all the way past the wing. It's like when I took the, the Singapore Airlines A350s, the, the specialty ones where they don't have any economy on the plane at all, it was premium economy all the way to the back, and the business class goes pretty much all the way to that back cabin, and then the rest is just this, this small premium economy cabin. But you wonder how long until, uh, Delta or United roll out one of those as well- Yeah ... just to say, "You know what? Who needs the back of the plane for this one? We're making so much money on these business class passengers that are paying cash, whose companies are, are paying cash for them, or people who are traveling on expense accounts," and then the rest is dotted with people like you and me using their points and miles to get up there, too. Yeah, I mean, but when you think about, you know, that Singapore Airlines route where they only have business class and premium economy, that flight is 19 hours long. Uh, and so, you know, that's twice as long as this flight that I had to London. So, you know, for that obviously you would want to pay more for a better, more comfortable experience on a longer flight. I- in a sense it becomes a little bit of a necessity. Uh, it's weird to think, uh, you know, you and I have talked about how we wanna try to get on Qantas's Project Sunrise next year, and they're talking about they're gonna offer a true standard economy, like they're not gonna o- uh, you know... S- Singapore, their lowest class of service on that flight is premium economy. Qantas still says they're gonna have economy. Apparently they think they have demand for, you know, a 31 inches of pitch on a 20-hour flight Insane. I want that pain, honestly. Put me in the back, put me in the middle. I wanna experience what that's like. You and I are gonna have to play rock, paper, scissors In all of its glory. For who gets it. Okay, um, I think that's really good analysis. I thank you for breaking down United versus Delta One. It's, it's gonna be really interesting to see, uh, kinda what happens in the next several years, and if American gets very serious about kinda their own entry into this. We may have to have, uh, our own Jackson Newman on, who flew American's new flagship business class too, to see where they rank in all of this as well. Um, you ready to help a listener? Yeah, let's do it. Okay, Malone asks us a question, said, "Hey, Kyle and Gunner," that still applies. "Uh, I have a trip to Croatia coming up soon, and I really wanted to fly on the Airbus A340-600 before it gets fully retired." That's real sicko stuff, Malone. Uh, "So for this trip, I bush- booked a cash fare through Lufthansa so I could do that. I've been going back and forth on where I should credit my miles for this trip. I currently am thinking about crediting them to Lufthansa. I always see that there are pretty great redemptions with Lufthansa miles. The only obstacle is that you have to have so many before you can even look at award bookings, and with Rove being one of the only transfer partners, it makes it kinda hard to earn them. But I figured if I credited this trip to Lufthansa, that might open the door for future award bookings with Lufthansa." But after listening to the podcast, it really got me thinking if I should be crediting those miles to Air Canada or United. I haven't flown United in years just because there aren't as many United flights in and out of Salt Lake that really make sense, so I only have a few thousand miles with them. Just wondering if you guys would be able to offer any suggestions on what you might do if this were your flight. Would you credit them to Lufthansa or would you choose another Star Alliance member? So in Malone's case, they're seeing which Star Alliance partners they can credit their Lufthansa flight. So you could do the same thing with American to say Cathay Pacific or with Delta to say Korean Air. So Kyle, what would you do here? What are you thinking as far as crediting this flight? Would you do Lufthansa for a rare chance to access that program, uh, or would you credit them to Air Canada or United programs you're more likely to use here? Yeah. First off, I do wanna say, you know, flying that A340, uh, real psycho stuff, but real cool, real jealous of you, man. Uh, I- I... Jared, if you're listening to this, can, can I get on that flight? I wanna, I, I have not flown the A340 yet. Uh, super jealous, would love to, but, uh, I think here it depends on what credit cards and what programs you also have in. Uh, you know, I've done crediting miles with, uh, Delta on my, on Korean Air flights that I've flown and others, uh, to, uh, to, uh, get more miles and status with Delta. Uh, when you're flying out of S- uh, Salt Lake City, uh, you've got no other long haul options besides Delta, so you are going to need to connect here. Um, so for this, I think it really depends on which other credit cards you have. Uh, you know, with Lufthansa there's some great redemptions, but as you said, uh, a lot harder to earn. So if you are, uh, getting more into Rove, uh, I think it does make sense, but, you know, you're then going to have to connect to Denver or Los Angeles or somewhere else, uh, that has, uh, Lufthansa Uh, but my first option for you would, or most people would most likely be to transfer to Air Canada. I think there are the most options on Star Alliance partners with Air Canada. Uh, I've used it to book Swiss business class, um, and other products. Uh, and so I think that would be my first choice. And then second, uh, would be to credit to United, and that's if you have a United credit card, again, in order to get that much lower rate. Uh, so really depends on what credit cards you got, uh, in order to, to see what's got the best value and what you can earn, um, and use the easiest. Yeah. I think Lufthansa is so niche. Their, their program is so niche. Uh, and what's most important to me here, I think, is probably don't spend too much time thinking about this at all. Earning miles by flying is now, uh, like barely a drop in the bucket. Like, you're not gonna earn even a quarter of a flight flying now. It's usually, you know, the, the miles you're earning are gonna be through credit card programs and, and other ways. So I really give almost no thought to this unless I'm trying to use whatever lowest level of elite status I have with Delta to fly a Delta partner, then I'll credit things back to Delta just so I can use those benefits. But really, I mean, crediting miles in today's kinda points and miles climate seems less important to me unless you're trying to earn elite status or you just need like a top-off. You already have a ton of, say, United miles and you just wanna add a couple more. But I think Air Canada in the number one spot makes a ton of sense. I think your analysis was spot on there. Connections are easy to book with Air Canada. So hopefully that gives Malone some advice. But yeah, crediting miles is not, uh, as important of a topic as it used to be- Plain and simple ... I guess. If you want us to answer your questions on the podcast or you have any feedback for us, hit us up, podcast@thriftytraveler.com. We might feature your question on next week's show. To close the show, as always, we go On the Spot, and I'm putting Kyle on the spot this week with, uh, what's gonna be some pretty practical advice for me. So during our review trips at this job, of which you've been on several lately, we have to get used to seeing places in a very short amount of time. You were in London for, what? Like two nights. Kyle was in Tokyo for two nights. I'm gonna have about 26 hours in Amsterdam coming up, uh, in a flight that I leave for in, uh, about five hours from when we record this. Um, what is your strategy for experiencing a city in a very short amount of time? Yeah. Uh, public transportation, especially in the big cities, uh, super big. Uh, I feel like they've gotten a lot better at making it super easy to navigate on your phones. Uh, come up with a list of your tiers of, you know, the big sights that you want to see, uh, and, uh, w- kind of map it out of, of how you're going to get there. There was a lot of things that I did not get to in London that I really wanted to. I really enjoy London. I've been a few times now. Uh, so yeah, kind of map out your priorities, see what else, uh, comes along the way, 'cause, you know, you're gonna find some random hole-in-the-wall spot that you're gonna... Uh, that'll eat into your time. But, uh, then also just, uh, you know, really make sure that, you know, especially on the first day that you get there, that, you know, you're not falling asleep right away, 'cause then the rest of your sleep schedule's gonna be messed up and your entire schedule is going to be off. Um, I guess also I've just been, uh... Now that, now that I've been traveling so much and, you know, I'm kind of used to this irregularity in, in, in order to see all these places, you know, I, I feel like my body just adapts a lot better. So sometimes you kind of have to travel a little bit more but, um, yeah, kind of map out your priorities, see what works, and then, uh, go with the flow when you get there, I say. I'll be honest, I kind of love it, the, the just coming in, parachuting in and seeing someplace, like, really fast. It, it makes you prioritize what you really wanna do. I lo- I love the slow travel stuff as well, like really getting to know a place, but I've almost never left somewhere and being like, "That was the right amount of time." Or I, I like, I wish, uh... I- it's always too short. Like, every vacation always feels too short, so when you really have to, like, di- dial in and prioritize, it's like, okay, here are the, the places I really wanna see. Um, you know, the, the review trips are sometimes hard 'cause you have to eat alone, which is always a little sad. I'm like, do I... What am I gonna bring, a book? Like, I think I'm probably gonna bring a book to dinner tomorrow night. Like, ah, it's, you know, it's not the most exciting. I'd rather eat with somebody else. But, uh, I kind of love these review trips. I love the sprint. And No jet lag 'cause you just don't adjust. Yeah. Uh, one, one, uh, y- interesting piece from, uh, this trip, uh, I didn't realize that I was going to be witnessing the solar eclipse. Uh, we only had a partial solar eclipse in London. Uh, St. Peter, who was on the show a few weeks ago, he was in Spain. Uh, he had some clouds, so he wasn't able to see the full eclipse, but he did have it there. But, uh, the most strange experience, I was, uh, staying in Victoria, uh, right by Victoria Station and Buckingham Palace, and I go out of my hotel, and the solar eclipse is happening right in front of me. And all of a sudden, a guy s- whips out the bagpipes and starts playing Amazing Grace on the bagpipes. And to me, it felt like the end of the world. Uh, like, you just very end times. Uh, like, "Is this how I go?" Like, c- just picture yourself in that situation. It, it felt strange. Like, you, you never know when you're going into a city what you're going to experience, especially in a big city like London. That's just the, the greatest, like, uh, vignette of l- the London experience for you to have in the back of your mind for all time. That's just perfect. Yeah. I'll always remember it that way. One of those great travel moments, travel stories. Okay, thank you all so much for listening to the Thrifty Traveler podcast. Rate us five stars on your podcast platform of choice, like and subscribe to the show on YouTube, and send this episode to someone you know who needs a vacation. If you have feedback for us, send me a note at podcast@thriftytraveler.com. We would love to hear from you there. This episode was produced and edited by Sylvia Thomas and was edited for video by the man sitting across from me here, Kyle Thomas. Our theme music is by Benjamin Tiso. Thanks, Kyle. See ya. See ya.