Against all odds, our baby - this humble travel podcast - is one year old! So the guys are celebrating the best way they know how: by turning the show over to you listeners for another mailbag episode. What’s the best way to book a business class seat all the way to Australia - or Hawaii? Why do airlines charge more per ticket for more passengers? How do we rack up more points? Plus, we’ve got huge news about the show that at least four of you have been waiting for… The Thrifty Traveler Podcast is going LIVE: Join us Friday, June 12 in Minneapolis! Buy your tickets now at thriftytraveler.com/live Thanks to our sponsor, Saily! Download Saily in your app store - use our code THRIFTY at checkout to get an exclusive 15% off your first purchase https://saily.com/thrifty 🌍 Thanks to our sponsor, Saily! Download Saily in your app store - use our code THRIFTY at checkout to get an exclusive 15% off your first purchase https://saily.com/thrifty 🌍
Against all odds, our baby - this humble travel podcast - is one year old! So the guys are celebrating the best way they know how: by turning the show over to you listeners for another mailbag episode. What’s the best way to book a business class seat all the way to Australia - or Hawaii? Why do airlines charge more per ticket for more passengers? How do we rack up more points? Plus, we’ve got huge news about the show that at least four of you have been waiting for…
The Thrifty Traveler Podcast is going LIVE: Join us Friday, June 12 in Minneapolis! Buy your tickets now!
Thanks to our sponsor, Saily! Download Saily in your app store - use our code THRIFTY at checkout to get an exclusive 15% off your first purchase
0:00 - Celebrating one year of the pod & our sunscreen strategies
05:41 - Mike welcomes us to the show from the Milford Sound
06:10 - Big news: Buy your tickets for the TT Podcast Live in June!
07:50 - What’s the key to booking biz class awards to Australia?
12:50 - How to rack up more points day to day
18:51 - The best lie-flat seats you can fly to Hawaii on points
22:22 - Why do more passengers = higher fares?
26:30 - And why we love beating the airlines at their silly games
27:15 - Strategies & best bets for cheap upgrades
31:37 - A word from our sponsor: Travel abroad with an eSim from Saily!
32:50 - How we track price drops and deals to rebook & save more
35:57 - And how to cancel your first flight for free
39:09 - Points to earn & lie-flat options to Europe for the family
42:29 - Would we ever use travel agents?
45:39 - An amazing sighting in the Delta Sky Club
47:59 - On the spot: A beautiful proposal … at the O’Hare Chili’s
Produced and edited by Sylvia Thomas
Video editing by Kyle Thomas
Show music: “All That” by Benjamin Tissot
Yo, welcome to the show. I am Thrifty Traveler Flight Deal Analyst, travel reporter, and your host Gunner Olson. With me, as always is Thrifty Traveler, executive editor, my friend, my boss, and my podcast partner of one full calendar year. It's Kyle Potter.
We're just throwing the word friend around now. Huh?
Yeah, it took some liberties.
Yeah. Well, I'll allow it.
Yeah. How do you feel about one year of the Thrifty Traveler podcast?
I, I didn't know if we'd make it. It took all of two episodes for two or three for our boss to come on and threaten to shut it down and then again do the same a couple of weeks ago.
So 52 full weeks of potting is, kind of, feels a little bit like a miracle.
I know, I know. It feels, it feels so good though. It's been really, really fun to, to share this with you all. These are the conversations we've been having for years and years, so it's fun to record the last year of 'em just to get our perspective on it.
On one year of podcasting together,
the takes nobody asked for.
All right. We're celebrating those takes that you didn't ask for, uh, by giving this episode over to you listeners. We've basically over the past 12 months, gotten so many questions and emails that we think need to be addressed. We try and do a listener question in every episode, but we've gotten way more than that.
So we're dedicating a full episode to some of the most interesting questions that, that didn't make the cut. Uh, it's an episode I'm calling the people's episode. Is that. Too grandiose, too robust.
Podcast meets democracy. Let's try it. Let's see how off the rails this gets.
Alright, before we start with the questions, Kyle, I wanna find something out.
Um, we are no secret, we're prerecording this episode a bit because I'm currently on vacation in Hawaii. As you listen to this,
you don't look like you're in vacation in Hawaii.
Yeah, I know. Because if you could see me right now on YouTube, you'd probably say, this guy is in danger in Hawaii because of the sun there.
This, this guy is the least in Hawaii of any human being that's ever existed based on his current physical location and, uh, the tone of his skin
and the extremely, extremely pale tone of my skin. So, Kyle, I need some advice. I'm formulating my sunscreen strategy for Hawaii. What is your, what's your sunscreen plan?
There's always a small bottle. In in the carry-ons and if we're going somewhere really warm, my wife and I each pack one, so that generally will get us about two or three days tops. So typically from there it's formulate a plant to buy a big bottle that will last us the rest of the week long trip. Two week trip.
The longer the trip, the bigger the bottle. And increasingly, I'm, I'm always advocating for, we gotta go at least SPF 50, if not a little bit higher. Uh, we have gotten, we have paid the price for going a little too low, even as recently as Costa Rica, where the sun is just. Unbelievably warm and hot and bearing in some cases, but more so in um, French Polynesia in Australia, in South Africa.
Uh, sun is danger. People, you gotta plan accordingly.
The sun is danger. My nemesis, frankly. I see. I usually go with 30. SPF 30, but a lot of layers. I have a timer on my phone every two hours that goes off, and I'm reapplying a full, full reapply of 30 over and over and over. I think, you know, does, is that how it works?
You get to add it up if you put on two layers, so two layers of 30 becomes 60.
I'm not a man of science nor numbers. I do know, however, that s pf 30 is not enough for you, buddy.
I'm
certain
you
gotta ramp it up.
I'm certain that's not how it works. Um, my favorite sunscreen story ever Kyle, was when we were on our Thrifty Traveler Team retreat in Mexico at Ila Con Toy, uh, I think, I believe it was a national park, uh mm-hmm.
Just north of Elimu Harris. And we took a boat there and they told us. No sun or beforehand they told us only the, you know, reef safe sunscreen is allowed. And then when we got on the boat, they bait and switched us and said, actually no sunscreen allowed. And you should have seen the look on my face. None of us were allowed to put a drop of sunscreen on the whole day, so we all had to sit in the water trying to hide from the sun in the water.
None of us had a coverup or a shirt or anything, and we're sitting there passing around a. Plastic water bottle of tequila, the only thing they would allow us to bring onto the island. That was, uh, a very, very funny outing. Um, I cannot believe that we all survived and we all made it out alive. I started, as soon as we got off the island, I started just covering myself in sunscreen and the boat captain came over.
He goes, no, no, no suns no. It's like, no, please man, you, you don't understand.
He's, he is going to die if he can't do this. Yeah. We were, we were forced between choosing to. Stay in the water underwater to try to limit, you know, getting burned to a crisp, or we could stay in the shade on the beach. But the mosquitoes were just, uh, other worldly bad.
And we also, in addition to not being allowed to use sunscreen, we we're not allowed to use bug spray either. So we, we went with the chance of sunburn over getting absolutely eaten alive.
Yeah. What a relaxing, relaxing afternoon that was choosing. Between which way we would like to be or have our skin ripped apart.
Alive.
East La Con toy though. What a place. East LA toy. It, it actually was amazing. And that was, that was a great trip. That was a great piece of the trip. Might do it differently next time,
you know? Yeah, I think so. If I, if I knew differently, I'd probably bring a little bit of a. Sun hoodie, which is now in my repertoire as I age.
Alright, today on the show we answer questions about when to book Australia and New Zealand award flights. We talk about points and miles, upgrades and rebooking strategies. A listener spots something incredibly rare out in the wild and we make a big, big announcement about the show. You're not gonna wanna miss all that and more.
Hello from the World, famous Milford Sound. Welcome back to the Thrifty Trailer Podcast.
All right. Introducing the show today. Is Mike in Milford's Sound. We're very jealous of you, Mike. Uh, that is a certifiably awesome place to send us a welcome back video. Uh, Mike also had a question for us today that we're gonna do in one second, but we need to hit another question right off the bat. That question is from Bradley who asks.
Hey guys, always a pleasure to hear you every Thursday morning on my Drives to Work. I saw that there may be a live show this year. I think that's a fantastic idea. I'm wondering if there are any details about that when it's happening, et cetera. You know, us Traveler Geeks need to get award availability and book asap.
Thanks again for all the advice and just an amazing podcast. Cheers, Kyle. I would file a live show under. Be careful what you ask for, but what do you think, uh, should we make Bradley's dream come true or what?
I think we're ready, right?
Yeah.
Let's do this.
Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, we are excited to announce the very first Thrifty Traveler Podcast live show.
It'll take place at the Parkway Theater in Minneapolis on Friday, June 12th at 7:00 PM We are so, so excited to do this. Uh, I, I can't believe that we're finally gonna get to see what you all look like. A long time coming, uh, a little intimidated to be honest, but I can't wait to do this.
Yeah. Really exciting.
This has been in, in some ways a long time coming, but also like it's really cool that we get to do this. Uh, the Parkway Theater in Minneapolis is one of my favorite places in our city. It's so cool. It's such an amazing venue. We're gonna have a ton of fun. We're gonna get to see what you all look like.
You're going to get to see and tell us, do we look better on camera? Does the camera add or subtract 15 pounds? We, we will get to let it rip.
That's right. I'm so excited. Um, tickets are on sale now. Head to thrifty traveler.com/live to get your tickets today. Uh, yeah, this is just gonna be so fun and we cannot wait to see you there.
Okay, let's get into it. Our second question this week is from the Mike. You saw and heard in the intro video who resides in Florida. Uh, a few months ago he asked us a question. It appears he figured out the answer to, uh, but I think it's really interesting. Anyway, so he asked us about really high mileage rates for business class seats to Australia and New Zealand.
Um. I'll paraphrase, but he said that many prices were in like the 200,000 to 300,000 points each way, range or more when he was looking up until like four months before travel. Uh, considering that he sent us a video from Milford Sound, I think Mike got what he was looking for in the end, or good work, Mike or he paid out the eyeballs to do it.
Well, I hope it's the former,
I knowing, uh, that Mike's a thrifty traveler. I'm sure he got a pretty good deal. Um. But this is actually a part of a bigger trend that I wanted to address here. I, I wrote about this in our Extra mile newsletter, but I'm, I've been noticing that the Traveler Premium team has been noticing that the booking curve, as we call it, is a lot shorter for these flights, especially business class flights down to Australia and New Zealand.
Sometimes the best rates are coming within like two or three months ahead of travel. Um. And I, I think like the best rates for peak season in Australia. Obviously our winter, their summer down under, can sometimes be booked in like January or February for travel in March or April. Um, it's a little nerve wracking to wait that long to book that big of a trip.
I totally understand that. But it is just something. That we've seen, um, have you noticed the same thing?
Yeah, definitely. I, I would say that this is the biggest trend is that these deals do tend to pop up somewhere in the neighborhood of one to four months before travel, especially for that peak season of, you know, let's just say December through March when most people really want to get to Australia or New Zealand, which to me really makes this the perfect destination to do one of two things.
One, just wait for the deal. To come and book it whenever that happens. Um, you know, have the points that you need, whether they're transferable points, delta sky miles. 'cause we've seen a handful of great Sky miles deals to both Australia and New Zealand. American Advantage Miles, probably another solid option to have a stash of, especially if you're trying to fly business class, you know, those 14, 15 hours and then the second.
Option, which maybe is the best one, is your tried and true stra strategy of booking something that's going to work to get that trip on the books. Book it as flexibly as you can, you know, preferably with a mileage program that allows either free or reasonable cancellation rates. Because if and when that deal does come up one to four months in advance, you can cancel what you already booked, rebook it for something that's gonna be a.
Better deal or a better experience to get you, you know, all the way to the land down owner.
Yeah, definitely. Uh, similarly to Mike's question, Karen sent us a question asking about the best three to five airline partners you'd check for premium economy business class to Australia and New Zealand. I think you mentioned American a Advantage Miles.
I would throw Alaska in there. 'cause a lot of the same availability you're gonna find with Alaska delta sky miles for sure. And then I'd say anything that transfers to Qantas, although you gotta have a lot of 'em, uh, those rates kind of start at 115 K each way. Right? So you're, you gotta stack up some points to make that work, especially if you're gonna do it round trip or for more than one person.
I would say don't, don't, uh. Don't hold your breath on United Space. We're just not seeing it anymore. Um, and we've talked about this before on the show. Just most importantly, aim for Brisbane. All the best. Australia and New Zealand flight deals are going through Brisbane right now because there's so much capacity into that airport and the planes just aren't that full yet.
So hopefully that trend continues into next year, uh, during their peak season, and we can book some, uh, good cheap flights to Brisbane. Anything else on this?
Uh, just the more flexible you can be with these long, long haul flights that are typically so much harder to book with points, the better. So being open to flying into Brisbane as your gateway into Australia, but also knowing maybe something to Sydney will pop up, maybe Melbourne, maybe it's gonna be to Auckland.
Like a deal. We found flying Qantas bookable through American Advantage for 80,000 miles a couple weeks ago. Something that we haven't seen bookable through American in a long, long time. But you know, if you're dead set and you're only searching for Sydney, you're really limiting your option. So the more pins on the map that you can consider as your gateway to get to that corner of the globe, the better chance you're gonna have to get a good deal.
Yeah, that's really smart. Your pronunciation of Melbourne is just so effortless now.
One of my, one of my favorite bands is from Melbourne, so I, it's just. It's in the head. You know,
really nicely done, Kyle.
Thank
you.
One year in just getting better too.
All of the, all of the words that we've butchered collectively in the last, you know, 53 weeks of podcasting have led us to this moment.
All right, let's help Gina. Um, Gina reached out with the following question that I find so, so relatable. Uh, she says. Quote, I'm still struggling to figure out how to accrue points and miles. I did the 100,000 point welcome bonus with Chase Sapphire preferred card, but I'm struggling to rack up the points from there.
What does everybody recommend? Kyle in general, the, these are the things that we're always focusing on ourselves, like selfishly and personally, right? And I think this is such just an important question overall, everyone has their strategies, but what are some of the best earning strategies that you employ?
In, in our episode early in the catalog about the 10 commandments of points and miles, we talked about the single most important thing for earning miles at scale, which is not a specific credit card. It's a mindset, and that mindset is before you make any purchase, you need a mental block. Asking, how do I make the most of this?
That's the single biggest thing, the biggest change that you can make to unlock all of the mileage earning that you're gonna need. Because until you have that, you're just not gonna go into your day to day life and the things that you do and your online shopping and trying to maximize a big home improvement project to parlay that into another big signup bonus, that is the biggest thing that you can do.
So. You know, again, if, if you have a big expense coming up, maybe it's a monthly daycare bill, maybe it's that big home improvement project or a big tax payment, you need to stop and ask yourself, what can I do to make the most of this? So, you know, that's coming up on the horizon. You go and look out for the next credit card that you can open to make that charge.
Pay it off immediately and then earn a big welcome bonus of another 80 to a hundred to 175,000 points or more in one fell swoop. There really is nothing that can compare with that. Again, if you do have those big kinds of one-time expenses on the horizon.
Um, I think, you know, as far as like figuring out which card to swipe and which one's gonna earn you the most, that mental block is really important.
I created a swipe guide for my wife and I, which is just a shared Apple note on our phones that just says, you know, here's what we're using for all of these things. I've heard of some people, uh. Print or getting some white tape and writing out what the each card is wor or is used for and putting it on the card itself.
Um, there are different ways to do this, um, but you know, when you pick up a new card, like go through all the earning categories and figure out what's gonna be the best use of that card. And then you have some when in doubt cards, like the Capital One cards, where you're just gonna get two x miles on everything and you just kind of set it and forget it.
Throw everything on that card. That's what we put daycare on and things like that.
You can take this to some huge extremes of having 10 different credit cards in your wallet. One for gas stations, one for grocery stores, a different one for restaurants, one for Amazon. You can do all of that if you really want to.
I think the best starting point to get people conditioned into this mindset is to have two, one card that is kind of the, the most frequent, the biggest spending for me and my wife for a lot of people. Groceries and restaurants. So having something like the American Express Gold Card, which earns four x points on grocery stores in the United States and supermarkets, and four X on restaurants worldwide, that is a really good one to have your go-to in those situations.
And then having another card that. Is that catchall that's gonna earn you a good chunk of points on everything else. And for, for me, for a lot of people that's also either the Venture or the Capital One Venture X Card, just those two alone will get you on the right path to earning and maximizing your spend without going full bore into having printed labels on all your cards.
Yeah. Um, just some other. Ideas I have just, you know, nibbling around the edges on just kind of earning points here and there. Like shopping portals are good for this. Rakuten is a browser extension that's really easy to use, can help you rack up points even when you don't know that they're there. Like there's these extra bonus categories where it'll just pop up and be like, oh, hey, by the way, you're earning 10 x on your Best Buy today.
No free ads. Best Buy. All right. Advertise with us. Um, but these are helpful. We talked about Capital One shopping a few weeks ago as well, and then referrals. Uh, if you have friends and family who are, uh, into points and miles or maybe who aren't and are looking to get started, be the one that sends them your link so that you get a little kickback when they hit their signup bonus too.
More points for everyone. I love a little referral. Any other strategies you like for racking up points quickly?
You know, I think if you are. Happy to spend money to earn points, looking for opportunities to buy miles, whether that is actually buying directly from an airline at a discount. You know, airlines like Avianca Life, miles, Alaska, to a lesser extent United or not United American will offer, you know, sales or bonuses on buying their miles.
If you know, you can then turn around and redeem those miles for significantly more than what you paid for, that is an easy way to start to elevate your stash for that next. Big trip. It's not as great as just swiping a credit card and earning a bonus, but it is a way to quickly level up, especially if you have a big trip on the horizon.
But there are also, you know, let's just call 'em unique ways to quote unquote buy miles at an even steeper discount. So every once in a while through portals like Rakuten, individual airline shopping portals, stuff like that will offer huge bonuses of, you know, maybe it's a hundred points per dollar.
Maybe it's even more than that. Being on the lookout for those opportunities as a cheap way to buy something and turn that into a big stash of miles is another great way to just nibble around the edges, as you said.
Yeah, for sure. Alright, Gina, I think that's enough to get you going. Um, a really good question.
So something that we, it's always important that we revisit and talk about and, uh, good. Kinda reset for me mentally too. 'cause sometimes it, it gets a little willy-nilly out there with the spending. I need to focus, I need to lock it in. Um, let's help Tracy from Omaha. Uh, Tracy wrote to us a few months ago, and we didn't get to her question, but we're gonna address it now because it's self-serving, Kyle.
Um, she asks, quote, I am trying to plan my first redemption to Hawaii from Omaha, for myself and my partner. I've been trying to research the best business in first class flights with life. Last seats I looked into United American and Hawaiian. I found tickets in Hawaiian's first class Le Hoku Suites from Seattle to Maui for 40,000 Alaska miles one way, and $6 in taxes and fees.
Seems like it's a good deal. Would you book this or is there a different sweet spot that you're aware of? Uh, also Tracy closed her email with Here's to using every single drop of PTO. We earn exclamation point. Absolutely. Exclamation point. Tracy?
Yes. Tracy?
Yes. This is the way, um. Tracy to answer your question, yes.
Uh, the La Hoku suites for 40,000 each way is a ridiculously good deal. I booked this exact itinerary for my wife for the trip that I'm on right now as you listen to this. Um, I really love that deal, especially if you have Alaska miles, which can be a little tricky to earn. Um, but I think it's definitely worth it.
Make sure you're watching for the aircraft type on there. Uh, the, the. Boeing 7 87 Dreamliner is the nice brand new La Hoku Suites. The other ones are, uh, the, A three thirties are live flat seats, but they're not like the big fancy modern suites that you're thinking of. That's like a 2, 2 2. And it's a little, little older.
An aged product for sure. Um,
aged,
aged.
Look at you 53 weeks.
Kyle, a few weeks ago, Jared and I talked about how the life flat market to Hawaii is kind of surprisingly lackluster. There's just not that many good options. What do you think
about life about? No. Um. I, it, it's a little bit surprising because everybody wants to go to Hawaii, right?
And so you would just naturally think, well, every airline is gonna throw their newest and best plans with their best business class seats. But that really isn't the way that airlines think because though everybody may want to be going to Hawaii, especially this time of year, and everybody would like to do it in a life flat seat.
Most people that are flying, Dawn, a lulu, let alone. Maui and beyond in the Hawaiian Islands are not flying on their employer's dime, and that is what airlines really care about when deciding what planes should we deploy, where the number one top of the list priority for the best, newest state-of-the-art business class cabins is.
What are the, the. Routes where we can charge $5,000 each way because the person who's sitting in that seat doesn't really care what the price is. 'cause they're not the ones actually paying that bill. That's just really not Hawaii. So over time, I think this will change, especially as you know, Delta, for example, is bringing in tons of new.
A three fifties, a 3 3900 Neos, both of which have their newest Delta one suites on board. As they do that, they will sunset the much older Boeing seven 60 sevens and Airbus a three thirties over time. They'll bring in these new airplanes on all of these routes. It's just gonna take more time for that to catch up and really, we'll kind of see that playing out across the entire industry, flying to Hawaii.
But you know, it's probably gonna take another five, six or more years to, to have a really kind of state of the art set up flying live flat. Until then, yeah, these Hawaiian sweetss are about as good as it gets.
Yeah. Okay. Um, let's move on and help Robin. Uh, so last year, Kyle, you broke news that American Airlines was using and abusing this nasty solo passenger pricing.
Um, it's basically where solo travelers were being charged more than traveling pairs or groups because the airlines assumed they were business travelers and they wanted to get more from them. Uh. Robin wrote us wondering if the opposite was happening in her case, and I think it's a good question about how airfare works.
She said her family is flying American Airlines to Maui. Of course, uh, she found two live flat seats at 50,000 AA miles each way, uh, from DFW to Maui. But when she upped that search to four seats, the rate one up to 70,000 each. So she asks. I have noticed that the price does seem to change and go higher when you add more seats.
It's actually the opposite from the single ticket problem that has been reported. Cow. Can you explain to Robin what's going on here?
This is Robin. I'm sorry to report the way that things usually work and why, you know, just Stu basically stumbling on the fact that air, some airlines were charging more for one passenger versus two was so counterintuitive because it flew in the face of what the norm is.
Airlines, you know, when you're buying a cash ticket and when you're buying a, you know, a mileage redemption from an airline that. Uses dynamic award pricing that sets the award, right, based upon the underlying cash rate. American does this, Delta does this. United does this. A handful of others too, but those are the most important ones for this discussion.
They base everything on inventory. How many site, how many fares do you have at a certain price point? If you have two fares available at 50,000 miles or $500? And you search for three people, you're not going to see that 50,000 mile rate. You're just going to skip up to the next available bucket of inventory, which in this case was clearly 70,000 miles.
So this is a really important thing for. Families to watch out for, um, even couples in some cases. 'cause if there's only one fair available, you may just kind of need to check and how you can split this up. So, you know, in Robin's case, what I would do is if I see something like this happen first, I would always just kind of check search for one, search for two, search for four.
And if you start to see this price discrepancy, what you should do is you should try to book two and two separately because that would allow you to book two tickets for 50,000 miles a piece, and then the next two for 70,000 miles a piece. Instead of paying 70,000 for all four of you and, and paying 280,000 miles.
That is the math. Yeah. Real time
attaboy
figured out pronunciation math. Still pretty rusty. Uh, you, you, so you can save a lot. Of course, you know, with families there are some other things to consider. If you're, if it's a, a couple traveling with two children, I would book one of you with a child and another you with another of you with the other child.
There's a, there's an easy way to split this up without causing some additional problems, but there are is some massive savings. You're just unfortunately gonna have to do some homework to figure out if this is happening and the best way to actually come out as far ahead as you can.
Yeah, that's a really good explanation of how kind of fair buckets work.
I don't, I have nothing to add to that. Hopefully that helps you, Robin. Um, I, I think, you know, the, the solo, the solo passenger penalty or tax or whatever you wanna call it, uh. Definitely makes me think a little more conspiratorially about the airlines. Are they, are they working against us to, to rob me of my money?
And a lot of times when I end up doing the searches, I realize, okay, these things are just bucketed into number of seats that are at each individual fair. There are so many fairs that go into each flight. You'd be amazed to see, you know, sometimes 30 or more different fare types just for a, a domestic flight in the us um, that go into all of these.
So. Most of the time fair buckets are to blame. They're not, uh, tracking your browser. You don't have to go incognito to beat the airlines.
You don't have to go incognito. Nor should you waste your time on stuff like that. I mean, to the point you initially raised, I do think it is like an adversarial relationship.
That's honestly why I love this stuff. It's why I love finding deals. It's why I love award travel. It's why I love talking with you about this stuff. Every week is, nothing makes me happier than beating multinational corporations at their own game. That's the element of this. I mean, I don't keep me wrong, I love going to Hawaii.
I would do that in a heartbeat, and that alone is fun. But that is a, a piece of the element around all things cheap travel that. To me makes this so much more exciting and at this point, you know, is probably going to dominate the rest of my life.
It's a good thing to have in the rest of your life. Kyle, um, let's move on and help Lauren and Mel who have questions about upgrade strategies.
Uh, Lauren messaged us saying they recently used a chase dive virgin transfer bonus. Awesome job to secure some tickets from MSP to Scotland via Paris, and return flights from London to MSP. They're booked an economy, but Lauren said this is the kind of trip that screams. Treat yourself Similarly, Mel messaged us saying they're traveling to Europe next fall from the Bay Area, and their partner will have his flight expenses covered by work, but only for economy.
Work will only pay for the economy ticket not to fly up front. So both Lauren and Mel wanna know what's the best strategy to upgrade to premium economy or business from an economy ticket? Kyle, your thoughts.
I think two things. One, you need to adjust your expectations accordingly. Cheap upgrades do happen, but I would say on the whole, they're relatively rare.
The, the entire strategy around buying the cheapest economy ticket you can, whether you're using cash or booking an award ticket and then upgrading later with miles or cash, is just, it's not a slam dunk. It's not even close. So I, I want to condition everyone to go into this with. It will be awesome if this happens if you get a great upgrade deal, but you absolutely cannot count on it.
And if you need that live flat seat, you are much better off focusing on booking that live flat seat to begin with, whatever you need to do to make that happen. The second most important thing is really to choose your airline wisely because while they are still across the board, quite rare, there are some airlines that stand out for more frequently offering cheap upgrades.
A few that come to mind at least flying to Europe. Air France and KLM Delta. Increasingly, I would say, but maybe the biggest one is Air Lingus, where we've regularly seen upgrades from economy to business class for 399, 299 per passenger, even under $200 per passenger, each one. Each way. It really doesn't get a whole lot better than that.
I think maybe the biggest piece of that is we only tend to see those kinds of cheap upgrade rates in the final week, if not final days, if not final hours before departure. So I would say. If you've got those economy flights booked, start setting some calendar alerts to check on your seat map, to check your reservation.
Starting maybe three weeks in advance. Check again at the two week mark again at a week and a half, and then, you know, for that final seven days, check once a day, if not more. Because these things change constantly as, as airlines sell more seats, as people change their current reservations. And maybe, you know.
Uh, a corporate traveler rebook and a different day on a later flight, and there's now all of a sudden one or more business class seat class seats open in the next five days before departure. That's, these are the dynamics that drive these things, and you just need to be willing to be pretty vigilant to take advantage.
Yeah, I, I really don't count on these things. I would not plan a trip around it. I would not mention it to your partner. Uh, there's a chance that we're gonna get upgraded. Babe, that never works well for me 'cause I never do. Um, I would say book the seat you want. Um, that's my number one strategy, especially when using points and miles, like these upgrade offers are just rare.
So, uh, book the seat that you want, most likely your upgrade is going to come. From booking availability on a different airline. So sometimes I'll book the Delta nonstop, uh, that I really want, and then I'm just sitting and waiting and, uh, searching for other routes and other airlines. And if maybe I can grab a, a one stop through Amsterdam or a one stop through Paris on the way home and premium or business, that's how you're going to quote, unquote upgrade your flight.
Uh, it's by flying a different itinerary, maybe. Hopefully on the same day. Maybe on a different day. So, uh, I don't put a lot of stock into. Kind of hunting out these cheap upgrades because they are few and far between. Uh, but man, I've, I've gotten one before and it feels pretty amazing when you can actually find one.
So, um, but it's just a, it's not a tried and true strategy. Anything else on this?
I think. I think we covered it.
Good. All right. We have a ton more questions, but first we're gonna take a quick break.
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Alright, we're back and I wanna help out Daniel and Violet.
Daniel reached out saying he's been involved in points and miles since 1979 when his dad joined the Texas International Program, making him a true OG in points and miles. That's awesome. Uh, we also got a similar question from Violet. Um, they both followed up on the episode. We did five things we do after booking a flight.
Um. Daniel wanted to know how we change and rebook travel awards. He asks, quote, how can I check if there's a better deal? Would love to better understand what you do post-booking to track it. Uh, Kyle, my answer to this is kind of boring. I do it manually. Um, I remind myself once a week or once a month to recheck award space on and around my date of travel, uh, on some routes that I'm interested in to see if something pops up.
We, of course, also have Thrifty Traveler premium alerts coming in all the time to remind. Ourselves of maybe the routes or ideas of different things, like the things I may have forgot to check. Um, do you have something more insightful than work harder and do this manually?
I, it's a low bar. Yeah. Um, there, there are a couple of things.
I mean, certainly if you're a premium member, just keep a close eye on your inbox. If you get an alert that's gonna fit with a. Better version of the trip you already have booked. That can always be the flag to go out, rebook it in a hurry if you're, you know, for example, you know, I've talked before about really struggling and then finally figuring out how to get home from Southeast Asia for a trip.
You know, coming up to spring to Hong Kong and Thailand before, you know, we figured out a way to book Cafe Pacific First Class thanks to a premium alert. Honestly, I was considering just booking the cheapest. Delta Sky Miles. One Wayfair I could find from Taiwan back to either Seattle or Onward to, you know, our home here in Minneapolis.
And in that case, what I would do is I would just set a Google Flights price alert because at least with Delta and to a lesser extent with American and United the the award where. Rate follows the cash price. So if you set a Google Flight's price alert on that route, on the exact flight that you booked or on the days surrounding it, if you can push your flight back a day or bring it up a day, that could be the trigger to say, you know what?
I'm gonna have a better deal. I can book this. And then I think finally, you know, while premium really focuses on widespread award availability, there's always a chance that just. One seat or two seats on the exact flights you want or something close to it is going to open up. That might not rise to the level of the kind of alerts that we send in those cases where you're really dead set on rebooking, something turning to a tool like seats do arrow or points.
Yeah. Or. Million others at this point. I would say those are two of our favorites in the office that allow you to set alerts for specific routes and get an email when award availability that you're looking for pops up. That could, that could be another tool in your tool toolbox to try to make this happen.
I think you have to do all of the above, including working harder, not smarter like you do.
Good. That's a good tip as well. Um. Violet's question about this was more about the hidden costs of this strategy. She asked how can you cancel the original flight without a penalty? I thought I only had 24 hours to cancel my booking.
I heard you say that domestically, most airlines have done away with penalty fees for changes, but what about flights to Europe? Um. The reason I put Violet's question in here is this is really important. It's something I don't think I spelled out clearly enough in that first episode that we did for award travel, especially when you're booking with foreign airline partners, so not United, Delta or American, you can face fees when you change or cancel your flights.
Um, I don't think I outlined exactly that. The fact that I am willing to eat. Change in cancel fees of like 50, $75 in some cases in order to save tens of thousands of points or a bunch of money. Um, that is something that I've just kind of built into the calculus. That's, that's the cost of doing this business.
To save a ton of money or a ton of points, I'm willing to eat some change or cancel fees. You do have to watch out for airlines like. Avianca life Miles, for instance, which charges you 150 for changes and $200 for cancellation. I'm not willing to eat that much. That's a lot. Um, but you know, you really gotta watch out for airlines like that.
But I, I don't think I spelled it out clearly enough. File it. I made it seem like, oh, wow, how easy is this? You're saving a ton of money when you do have to eat small portions of fees, like 50 to 75 bucks, which is not nothing, but it's kind of the cost of. Doing business for me.
Yeah, and I mean, again, I think importantly if, especially if you're in the situation where you're trying to book something just in order to get it scheduled and then you're planning to keep checking and use all the tools we talked about to hopefully rebook something better.
Booking at first with a US airline program that allows free cancellation on all award tickets, I think is a really great starting point. You know, you can also, I mean, I would also say most, if not almost all of the foreign airline programs that we talk a lot about on the show, air France, Virgin Atlantic, air Canada, Aeroplan, have pretty reasonable cancellation fees as well.
So that if you're willing to eat that cost, as I think in many cases you should be, those are also good starting points. And then finally, if you're just booking, you know, a cash flight, a cheap flight to Europe that you're planning to. Come back to and cancel later. If something better in business class that you can book with points pops up.
Booking with a US airline, booking a main ca main cabin economy ticket, not the cheapest basic economy fair, allows you to then cancel, not to get a full refund, but to get a voucher with that airline. So if you book a $500 round trip fair from Minneapolis to London or wherever. On Delta and then you find some great award availability to make a similar trip in business class, then you could pocket that $500 voucher to use towards another trip within the next year that you book, before that expires.
So it's not getting your money back, but as long as you go into that knowing like, I could get a voucher back from this, that I would then have to use within, you know, 11 months or less. That's another option here.
Good, good advice. Okay, let's help Andy. Andy reached out saying he and his wife helped their moms book a June 20, 27 European cruise for four.
And now Andy's turning their attention to points. Uh. They said they wanna fly live flat both ways, and they're loosely based at MSP, though they're willing to conveniently reposition as well. Uh, they said both moms opened the Atmos Ascent card and got the A DK Atmos offer there, and both of them have the Atmos summit card, which allows them to combine points at no cost.
So Andy asks. What card would you recommend the moms open next to build towards four business class seats to Europe? And which airlines or alliances should we realistically be targeting from MSP? We're totally fine flying anywhere into Europe. I think they meant that. This can be a card that any of them open, but more or less, Kyle, a question is, what should they target to earn more and more points for a business class trip to Europe?
I can start with my recommendation. I think what I did for my upcoming trip in May is the City Strata Elite card, um, a little bit higher of an annual fee at 5 95 a year. So you're gonna have to be willing to eat that, but you're earning miles that are both flexible and most importantly. We'll transfer to American Airlines.
Uh, you're gonna want the American Airlines miles for Air Lingus flights to Europe, which if you have a ton of these Atmos points too, those can also be used to book Air Lingus as well for even lower rates. Um, or you can book American Airlines business class from MSP, but you're gonna have to connect in Chicago or Philly or Charlotte, uh, places like that.
Um. This pairs well with the Alaska cards. I think having these flexible city points is kind of the best of, I have American miles if I need them, and also I have some flexible points that you can transfer to, like Air France, KLM flying blue, which, uh, if some Air Life flight seats pop up on Air France or KLM to Amsterdam or Paris, that's an amazing deal outta MSP too.
What do you think?
I, I think that's a really good point. Strategy. The, the biggest thing for points for flights, for airlines that you actually fly for redemptions start to finish is just flexibility. Talking about four business class seats in what would be the start of peak summer to Europe next year.
We don't know what summer. Next year is gonna look like, we don't know what summer this year is gonna look like. Who knows? But that is on its face, uh, a tougher redemption to pull off. So the more options, the more flexibility you can give yourself, including, I would just consider the possibility, or at least being open to the idea of.
Maybe not all four of you flying on the exact same flight. Maybe you take the same flight a day after each other. Maybe you connect through different US hubs in order to get to the same spot in Europe ahead of this cruise. That's not to say that that's absolutely going to happen, but the more flexibility, the more options that you're open to in order to make this happen.
Four seats in live flat business class in June. That the better off you're going to be and the better deal you're going to get just so long as you have some flexible points at your disposal.
Yeah, absolutely. Flexibility is key. Okay. One last question from Whitney. Uh, really interesting one. I. Whitney asks, I'm curious if there is ever a destination or situation you would use a travel agency over booking a hotel with points.
My husband and I are considering Japan or Scotland and like the idea of the personalization that would come with a travel agency, with hotels, tours, drivers, et cetera. However, we would only be able to leverage points for flights. Thanks for any insights. Kyle, I'll, I'll take this question as this. Uh, is there any.
Time you would consider using a travel agent? I typically steer clear. I like to have the control over my trip. I find the planning process really fun. But what Say you about using travel agents?
No offense to travel agents. There are some amazing travel agents out there who care deeply about what you want to do and will help you find the best deal possible to make that happen.
It's just not for me. And that's because of exactly what you said. I love booking travel. I love the logistics. I, the more complicated, the more fun that puzzle is.
You're sicko.
I, I, I am a broken man and everything that I love is demented. I love this stuff. The harder, the better. So there are very few, if any, situations, me talking right now where I would say, you know what, somebody else figure this out for me because that would ruin half the puzzle for me.
I could see however, something really big, like the top of the, top of the bucket list, like safaris, um, in certain corners of the globe that maybe I don't understand as well. Going up and down New Zealand where there's a lot of logistics, not just involving flights, but cars as well, and lodging options that maybe I don't.
Understand or have the time to figure out, um, going to Antarctica, you know, this is something that my wife and I are hoping to do within the next few years, and it may be that we just hand that off to somebody to help figure out for us. I don't, I don't know, but it would have to be something really big like that for me.
But, you know, what's big for me is gonna be different for everybody else. If you have, you know, left the country just a couple of times and all of a sudden you're talking about flying all the way to Japan and you want to go from north. To South and see everything that is really big for you. And I think, you know, there is no one size fits all answer to any of this stuff.
And that includes travel agents.
Yeah, I would say the only, the thing I've heard, um, and I've, I'm still, after our Jason Mathson episode, I'm still just cruise curious. I'm, I'm not a cruiser myself, uh, but I. I think cruises tend to give better rates to travel agents or, so I've heard that at least. So if I was doing something like that, maybe going through a travel agent would make a lot of sense to, and yeah, we don't, we don't mean to offend any travel agents out there, we're just the kind of people who just love doing this stuff ourselves.
So it just, you know, it brings me joy. If this, if planning travel brings you dread, then maybe that's something to consider. Yeah. So, and that's, that's why travel agents are, are so, so helpful. Um. Let's move on. I think that helps Whitney enough. Let's move on to a listener submission. This, this episode has been full of listener questions, so instead we're gonna do a little submission, and this was, um.
A photo submission from Ryan, and you can see the photo on our YouTube video. I'll do my best to describe it, but he spotted one of the rarest things I've ever seen in travel at waiting in line at the Sky Club, a Delta Silver medallion bag tag on a backpack in the wild. He said quote, wanted to let Kyle and Gunner know that I saw one of these rare birds in the MSP Sky Club.
We'll share the photo with you, but man, is it a beauty, a big hook? Ring on a nice. Leather backpack, just flaunting his silver medallion status for all to see. Um. Kyle, I think status bag tags of all levels are exceptionally tacky and super useless. Uh, do you like, if you're wearing a bag tag, do you really think someone's gonna give you better attention?
Like, 'cause they could visually see that you're a silver medallion? I think that's just so strange. Even if you're a diamond medallion, like the, the good service you're gonna get is from your like dedicated phone line. And after you scan yourself into someplace, you're not just gonna get some. Visually good service.
Anybody could just wear a diamond medallion bag tag. I should just go buy some.
Should we just make some,
yeah, and go make some,
that would be a good social experiment for us to just make phony bag tags for status and see how our experience changes, because I would be willing to bet all of the money in my pocket, which currently is $0.
That our experience would not change one iota. In fact, we would probably just get some weird looks from people like us who also agree that bag tags with status are entirely tacky.
Yeah. Uh, silver medallion bag tag is something else. Honestly, I respect it. I hope that it's a bit, uh, because in that case that's so funny.
You got us Good, man. Um. All right. If you want us to answer your questions or your submissions for the podcast, or if you see any other hilarious bag tags in the wild, hit us up at podcast@thriftytraveler.com. We might feature your question or submission in next week's show. And finally, if you want us to submit or if you want to submit your welcome back video, upload your video to thrifty traveler.com/voicemail.
These have been so great. I can't wait to see what you all come up with next, and to close the show as always, Kyle, it's on the spot and I'm putting you on the spot this week. Are you ready?
Let's do this.
Okay. So Kyle, you've talked openly on the show about being a crier. Uh, I'm actually a bit of a crier too.
The last time I cried Kyle was last night when I saw this incredible video that I just sent to you and I want you to watch while I narrate it. Um, and my on the spot to you this week is putting you on the, on the spot to see if I can get you to cry like I did. So this video is of a beautiful couple. Rob and Sarah who got engaged this month at maybe the most beautiful place on Earth.
The terminal three chilies at Chicago O'Hare International Airport. I can't really think of anything more beautiful, Kyle. Can you?
Yeah, yeah. Let me get a list going.
Um, I guess my on the spot question to you is, can you think of any spot in any airport on earth more beautiful than this? A better place to get engaged at any airport in the world than at the terminal?
Three chilies at Chicago O'Hare.
Uh, outside of the restroom in the Minneapolis airport where former US Senator Larry Craig was arrested. Any other airport. In the country, if not the world,
but that terminal three chilies is just such a, just such an intersection of life. Like it's just at the crux of, of the whole terminal.
Like this. That is, that's the, the, the, the town square in the oldest form of it. It's that chilies is, is an icon. And these two got to live out their romantic dreams getting engaged right there where they met, apparently, which is super cool.
I'm, I'm not seeing any evidence that they celebrated afterward with a Triple Dipper.
If, if they did, then I will take back everything I said, no, this is actually really touching. No, no tears yet. Gimme a minute. Um, but congrats to both Sarah and Rob. This is really cool.
Um, I hope this was legit and not just a ploy for free chilies at at t three for the rest of their lives. Um, but anyway, congratulations to Rob and Sarah for a beautiful engagement at, uh, the Great O'Hare International Airport at the Terminal three chilies.
The. The intersection of the world right there.
You're gonna get canceled before we get our live pod.
No, we're gonna make it to the live pod. Took us now. We hope to see you there. All right, Kyle, that's all from me. Anything else? Anything else for the listeners? Happy one year anniversary listeners. Thanks for joining us.
Uh, thank you so much for listening to this episode and every episode of The Thirsty Traveler Podcast. Rate us five stars on your platform of choice and like, and subscribe to the show on YouTube where you can see that video, the silver medallion bag tag, and you can investigate whether or not Kyle did or did not.
Shed a tear watching that couple Get engaged at a Chili's. Send this episode to someone you know who needs a vacation. And if you have feedback for us, send me a note at podcast@thriftytraveler.com. We would love to hear from you there, Kyle, tell us about the team.
This episode was produced by your favorite host who is crying, not in the club, but outside the airport, Chili's Gunner Olson.
It was produced and edited by Sylvia Thomas, and edited by Kyle Thomas. Our theme music is by Benjamin Teso. See you next week.
See ya.