SkyTeam and Star Alliance might seem like boring corporate brands, but understanding airline alliances - and how to use them to your advantage - is absolutely critical for leveling up your travels. That’s why the guys devote an the hour-long to breaking down alliances: what they are, why you should care, some of the best redemptions using those alliances, and even coming up with their own alliance … headed up by Gunnar’s namesake, “Gunair.” Head to https://cozyearth.com and use code THRIFTY for up to 20% off!
SkyTeam and Star Alliance might seem like boring corporate brands, but understanding airline alliances - and how to use them to your advantage - is absolutely critical for leveling up your travels. That’s why the guys devote an the hour-long to breaking down alliances: what they are, why you should care, some of the best redemptions using those alliances, and even coming up with their own alliance … headed up by Gunnar’s namesake, “Gunair.”
Head to https://cozyearth.com and use code THRIFTY for up to 20% off!
Join the conversation! Sign up for the free Thrifty Traveler Podcast Slack community today.
00:00 - A word from our sponsor, Cozy Earth!
01:00 - Gunair starts an airline alliance
02:33 - Kyle’s Thailand trip, made possible by alliances
06:00 - Jen welcomes us back from Meteora, Greece!
06:40 - Breaking down the alliances: Star Alliance, SkyTeam & Oneworld
26:15 - What is the (funky) fourth airline alliance?
34:50 - Our favorite airline alliance is…
38:30 - A word from our sponsor, Cozy Earth!
39:00 - The power of airline alliances: Our favorite redemptions
55:00 - Is it really this easy to use points and miles with partners?
58:45 - A listener asks: Why don’t more airlines charge for carry-ons?
01:01:30 - On the spot: If you could add an airline to any alliance, what would you do?
Produced and edited by Sylvia Thomas
Video editing by Kyle Thomas
Show music: “All That” by Benjamin Tissot
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But when it comes to travel, we love ourselves an upgrade, whether it's a first class seat or a hotel suite, but this one is one of those upgrades I didn't know I needed until I tried it. If you wanna try for yourself, Cozy Earth has 100-night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty, so there's really no risk in trying.
Head to cozyearth.com and use code THRIFTY for up to 20% off, 'cause home isn't just where you live, it's how you feel. Comfort lives here, Cozy Earth. Yo, welcome to the show. I am Gunnar Olsen, a flight deal analyst and travel reporter at thriftytraveler.com, a website that is executively edited by my co-host here, Kyle Potter.
And Kyle, today we're talking about airline alliances. So I need to find out two things from you to start. If you started an airline, what would it be called? And two, would you like to join my budding airline alliance?
I'm still stuck on the phrase executively edited. That's, that's probably a first.
It is.
It is for the show.
What was your question?
What is your airline called, and would you like to join my airline alliance? I'm starting one
Nobody wants me to run their airline, and I don't even wanna run one. So I don't have an airline. If I did, I would love to join your alliance, and we would just cruise to the bottom of the barrel of the industry.
Kyle Airways and, uh, Gun Air is gonna be my, my airline. That's good. Okay. You're, you're in for my alliance, though?
Yeah.
Okay, good. Uh, today our goal is to explain and go deep on understanding airline alliances because once you have a grasp of the alliances themselves, you kinda enter this next level of points and miles.
We've talked about this many times. We wanted to really dig deep on what exactly it is that an airline alliance is doing for you. It's kinda the most fundamental part of award travel, unless you're okay just paying whatever Delta wants you to to fly, you know, 300,000 SkyMiles to go to Rome. Uh, you can do that, or you can understand airline alliances and do way, way better.
Um, the reason why we wanted to do this, you had the perfect example of this from your trip to Thailand. What did you find?
You know, a, a lot of w- how people talk about points and miles really goes to, you know, saving a b- a bunch of miles or even not that many miles but flying business class, and it's the big overseas trips that get a lot of attention at the expense of really small important things.
So in this case, when we were piecing together that trip that we took to Southeast Asia and Thailand a couple of weeks ago now, we needed to get from Hong Kong to Bangkok in order to make our way eventually to the tiny island of Koh Kood in Thailand. And there were a lot of options, and it w- was honestly incredible.
It was insane how different the amount of miles and also the taxes and fees we could have paid was by using the right or in many cases the very, very wrong airline program in order to book it. So this started because Cathay Pacific offers all of, almost all of the flights from, um, between Bangkok and, and Hong Kong, and it, the prices were just a little gross.
It was like $400 a piece for a three-hour flight. It didn't need to be that way. So we said, "Okay, well, let's figure out the different ways to book this." Cathay Pacific is a member of the Oneworld alliance. That means that there are more, basically a dozen different ways to, to book that flight, so going through beat by beat trying to figure out what the best way to, to book.
My natural starting point these days is Finnair, uh, because they often h- offer the best deal out of all of the Oneworld airlines, but Finnair was charging 35,000 Avios per pr- passenger and just shy of $100 in taxes and fees. It's like, well, I think we can do a lot better than that. So the next best option was American Airlines with half of the miles, 17,500 American Advantage miles, and about half of the taxes and fees as well, $47, so much, much better.
Qantas, Australia's Qantas, uh, another One World airline was charging, again, all of the exact same 8:00 AM departures for all of these flights. Qantas was charging 16,100 miles, so a little bit less on the mileage, but back up to nearly $100 in taxes and fees. Next on to British Airways, uh, 13,500 miles and, uh, and again, $97 in taxes and fees.
Cathay Pacific, of course you could use th- their miles, much better on the mileage front, 9,000 miles and $102 in taxes and fees. Now we get to the two really good ones. Alaska, Alaska At- Atmos, 7,500 points and $60. It could even, if I had the, um, Alaska Summit card, y- waives that partner booking fee, so that would've been more in the neighborhood of 40 or so.
And then finally, what I ended up booking was Qatar Avios for 9,000 Avios and $48 in taxes and fees. Six incredibly different options, and you just go through the list and it's like, every time it's like, how can it be so different to book the exact same flight departing at the exact same time on the exact same day?
Yeah, and that is exactly the power of the airline alliance. And, uh, and like you said, it, it can be so much bigger than just, like, a small intra-Asia flight, too. I mean, that's the key here is you can do these to fly all over the world. You can do it to connect your itinerary perfectly like you needed to.
That's why we wanted to dig into this today and just unlock this next level of travel rewards. Today on the show, we're just talking all about the power of airline alliances. All that and more.
This is Jen, and I'm visiting the monasteries of Meteora in Greece. Welcome back to the Thrifty Traveler podcast
Okay, introducing the show today was Jen from Greece. Uh, Meteora looks spectacular. It's about four hours straight north of Athens. I had to look it up 'cause I had never seen what those mountains were. Um, I always think of Greece as just, like, the ancient history and the islands, and then you forget about all those insane mountains up there.
It looks so cool. Uh, Jen, thank you for taking time from your vacation to check in with us. That was awesome. Okay, we're actually gonna start today with The Extra Mile, where we dig a little deeper on an important travel topic, and this week we're just starting with the basics. What is an airline alliance, Kyle?
It is... Are, are you asking as a member of Gunner or just as a generally interested traveler? Yes.
Um, both. Both. I need to know
As, as a generally interested traveler and the founding member, uh, and godfather of Gunner, an airline alliance is, I think you put it pretty beautifully at the top, it's, it's the bedrock, it's the foundation of all things.
It is, it is the key to getting the most out of your points and miles. E- h- everybody's been on a flight at some point where, you know, they're flying American and they say, "A proud member of the One World Alliance," or United of the Star Alliance, or Delta and the Sky Team Alliance. And it sounds like something relatively unimportant and just corporate, but it really is the key to taking things to the next level because there are these alliances, these networks of partner airlines of a dozen or more different partners, and then you start to see that by using the best of those partners to book any given flight, that means you've got 12 plus options to book one flight, and every single airline will charge, in many cases, a different, and in some cases, a significantly different amount of miles, as well as taxes and fees for the exact same flight from point A to point B that you're trying to book.
And so then the name of the game is what is the single best way to book my flight that I want to take from point A to point B or from point Y to point Z? Whatever combination, finding that is how you get the most out of your points and miles because the less that you use for every flight, the more you've got for the next big redemption.
Yeah, and I think in the US we're positioned really well for this because of our flexible points currencies, right? The Amex points, your Citi points, your Capital One points, your Bilt points, your Chase points, which transfer to all these foreign airlines, and you might look at that list and say, "Okay, uh, I don't really want the South American Air- airline to have any of these points."
But in some cases you really do. Tell me about why the transferable points have kinda opened, unlocked this for us.
Because it makes it possible to earn miles and m- get the best redemption even by using an airline that you're never gonna set foot on, or an airline that maybe you've set foot on once and you like them, but you know, they're all the way over in Japan and you're not trying to get to Japan, you're trying to get to Europe.
I mean, the fact that in some cases the cheapest way to get to Europe is using a South American airline mileage program, or the best way to get, you know, fly from, you know, your hometown in the Midwest down to the Caribbean is by using a Japanese carrier's airline program. I mean, this stuff really boggles the mind in some cases.
I think it becomes two things. It's like Wow, there is so much to learn here. But it also says there is so much value here, and I think that's what sets off the, sets off people down the rabbit hole that you and I and probably most, if not every person listening to this is, is tumbling down as we speak of trying to figure out, "How do, how do I make this work?
How can I exploit the absolute best of these workarounds in order to get the best possible deal?" 'Cause that's what, that's what Thrifty Traveler is all about, getting the best possible deal no matter what.
Yeah. And so it, it's not just for booking flights, right? This works the other way around. Once you have a flight booked with an airline, you can then kinda use the alliances the opposite way, right?
Right. You know, for those instances where, you know, you, you find a cheap 400, 500-some dollar fare to Europe, and you're, you're willing to pay that and not use miles instead, it means that you don't necessarily need to just rack up a few hundred or a few thousand miles with an airline that you're never gonna fly again.
Because of these alliances and these partnerships, you can credit both the miles and also in, in many cases status towards the airline that you actually wanna fly. So if you do wind up flying Air France throughout Europe or KLM over to Amsterdam and back, you don't necessarily need to credit those flights to Air France or KLM.
You can credit them to Delta or to Korean Air or w- any other member of the SkyTeam alliance. It is a two-way street, and that's an important piece of this, too.
As I understand it, Kyle, as long as you have more than two. So you and I, we cannot sadly be an airline alliance together. We would need Sylvia to have Sylvia Air join us, and then we would be an alliance.
So it has to be three or more, and that's why there's actually a fourth airline alliance that you may or may not know about out there. We'll get to that in a little bit, but it's a really funky one. Um-
Is this gonna be the something stupid of the day? Is the fourth airline alliance?
It might be, but I'm loathe to call it something stupid 'cause I'm kinda intrigued.
Why do airlines do this? What's, what's in it for them?
You know, I think it's, it's in part a marketing advantage to just say, "Hey, we've got all of these partners. We're part of this big cooperative," let's call it. It does, you know, whether, whether it's just a one-off partnership between two airlines or, you know, these big networks of 10 or 12 or more partners in alliances, it does make travel more convenient.
It allows the airlines to cooperate and hand off reservations to each other a lot more, and I mean, for, for consumers and for people who have points and miles and wanna use them, uh, this is the gold mine. The, what airlines themselves are trying to get out of it is, is almost a moot point because there's just so much value here for everyday people.
Um, so outside of these alliances, there are these partnerships. What, briefly, what's a partnership? How is it different?
It's just a, a one-way partnership. Did I- Can I define the word- Nice ... using the word? That works, right?
Yeah.
Yeah. It's, it's just, uh, airlines collaborate. They, they work together. Um, there are different degrees of, of partnerships.
Ex- in some cases it can be as simple as really just about their frequent flyer program. So for example, within the last year and change, JetBlue and United have their Blue Skies partnership, which is mostly just on the frequent flyer reciprocity. So if you have status with one of those airlines, you can have it honored flying United if you have JetBlue Mosaic status or vice versa, as well as some mileage redemption stuff as well.
In other cases, you know, you get to the very, very top end of what an airline partnership can be, and that's called a joint venture, which, you know, is, uh, really it allows airlines to act as one. So for example, all of the big US airlines have joint ventures with some of their foreign counterparts over in Europe.
For Delta it's Delta, Air France, KLM, and Virgin Atlantic. Um, in the Oneworld alliance it's, uh, primarily American Airlines and British Airways. Because they have a joint venture, they're allowed to cooperate together in terms of where they fly when, so, you know, British Airways may add a flight from, let's just say Cleveland over to London, and American doesn't need to worry about flying that route.
But more importantly, it allows them to cooperate on price. Um, so they get to decide, and they share revenue after the fact, exactly what amount of a fare is gonna be charged on these routes, which is why if you ever search, for example, from Minneapolis to Amsterdam or Paris and you see both Delta flights as well as either Air France or KLM flights, 999 times out of 1,000 those fares are going to be identical even though they're separate carriers because they have this joint venture that allows them to function as one airline, at least flying across the Atlantic.
Yeah. Okay, so that's, like, one of the closest kinda partnerships that there is. Um, should we get into what are the actual airline alliances?
Seems, seems a good time.
Okay. Um, how many of these do we have to care
about? How many alliances?
Yes.
How many- There's three global alliances. Um, but as you go through each of them, I mean, you know, the Star Alliance, let's start there- Mm-hmm
is the biggest with more than two dozen different airlines. But I promise you, you don't need to care about all two dozen different Star Alliance carriers. I mean, what we really care about is three things Does the airline that we, um, that we need to care about in terms of each alliance, can we earn their miles easily, either by flying them here in the United States or preferably through credit cards that allow you to transfer from the big banks like American Express, Chase, and Capital One?
Number two is do they offer reasonable rates, at least on the kinds of flights that, you know, everyday consumers would wanna book? You know, is it super useful to have super cheap rates within the South Pacific? Probably not for most people listening to this, so that could come in handy. So there are gonna be niche exceptions to this where, you know, there are very select circumstances where you would add a seventh to the list of the Star Alliance airlines you really need to care about.
But in most cases, the ones that we're gonna highlight are the ones that you really care about. And the third and final one is just are the taxes and fees reasonable? Pretty automatically, there are a good chunk of airlines here that you can just lop off the list of things that you need to pay attention to whatsoever because they're just notorious for charging an arm and a leg in taxes and, and fees on top of the miles that you need to use.
Yeah. Okay, so in the Star Alliance, the alliance that includes United here in the US, what are the airlines and programs that you think people should be aware of? I don't need you to list all 26. Apologies to Aegean Airlines and, uh, Copa and Croatia Airlines and the ones that are smaller players in the broader alliance.
Smaller players and just don't have an easy way to earn those miles period. Um, you know, United is the obvious place to start. Every global airline alliance of the big three has a US charter member that kind of functions as the group leader, and United is unquestionably the group leader of the Star Alliance.
I would say in many ways, though, United is, you know, if you, if you think about the three major US airlines, United in the Star Alliance, Delta in SkyTeam, American in Oneworld, United is the weakest of those three. And the other, and the other two, I would say those, those two airlines are kinda big players in this.
United is not s- nowhere near the best, the one that I care about most when it comes to Star Alliance airlines. What I care about more are airlines like Air Canada and its Aeroplan program, definitely All Nippon Airways or ANA from Japan and its Mileage Club, Avianca LifeMiles, which we've already touched on, and they've wronged you so many times, and you keep going back for more.
Uh, Singapore Airlines, uh, in large part because that really is the only way to book, um, premium cabins, business or first class, flying Singapore And Turkish Airlines, uh, and its Miles and Smiles program, gotta love it, with a, a, just a wrinkle of one last one that might be worth considering, especially in those niche circumstances, EVA Airways
Yeah.
So, um, the, when I think of Star Alliance, I always think of Air Canada and Avianca just for the ease of booking United flights, partic- in particular, like in and around the US, and then also just, you know, Avianca has the low rates and the, uh, brutal customer service and tech problems that have stymied me over and over again.
Um, but Air Canada, I mean, I, to me, like Air Canada feels like the leader of this thing, even though on, you know, on the, the world scale, they're probably not flying that many available seat miles compared to some of these others. But for me, like as, as, as a US traveler who's able to earn, uh, miles that transfer or points that transfer to Air Canada Aeroplan miles, Air Canada feels like the leader of the Star Alliance to me I-
if you just look at it in terms of the value of the miles, I think it's definitely up there And the, the wrinkle here, and I, I almost hesitated to say United is not the leader of this thing, it's not the, the most powerful of, of the big three US airlines when it comes to their mileage programs.
I stand by that. But that said, it is unmistakable that United has muscled around some of these other ones, including Air Canada, including Avianca Life Miles, including Turkish Airlines, because all three of those airlines within the space of the last year, let's call it, have raised award rates specifically on United Airlines-operated flights.
So you used to be able to, to book a United flight within the domestic US for, you know, 5,000 Avianca Life Miles or less in some cases, and all of those rates have gone up. You used to be able to fly, you know, a United Airlines-operated flight from the East Coast over to basically anywhere in Western Europe for 60,000 Air Canada Aeroplan miles or 60,000 or 63,000, sometimes even less Avianca Life Miles.
Those rates have also gone up. You used to be able to book a, um, a flight from anywhere in the United States to Hawaii and back for as low as, I think, 15,000 and then 20,000 Turkish Airlines miles. Those rates have also gone up. That is not a coincidence, and it shows just how powerful the US airlines are in this world of global airline alliances.
Yeah, definitely. Um, I have, uh, a recent win using a, a Star Alliance booking. I was able to book my ITA Airways flights within Italy for, uh, 6,000 United miles each way and, like, 40 bucks in taxes and fees, which is a really good deal compared to the, uh, the cash rate. And we have one Ryanair flight during this trip, but I decided not to, uh, subject Megan, my wife, to m- more than one Ryanair.
We're just gonna stick to ITA Airways flights. But that was a nice simple one that, you know, I just used my memory bank of, who are ITA's partners again? They just joined the Star Alliance, and so I was thinking about it and I was like, "You know what? I think I have some marooned, uh, United miles that I could use on this trip."
And we did. We had, I had enough. I had, like, 12,100, so was able to book both.
You know, for as much as, you know, most travelers would probably default to using their US airline mile, miles on any trip, especially a big trip abroad that starts in the United States- In, in a sneaky frequency, I would say sometimes the best way to use your United miles, your American miles, your, especially your Delta miles, is not for a flight that touches US soil, it's for piecing together a bigger trip somewhere overseas.
So that's a perfect example.
Yeah, Delta is a really good example of that. So let's move on to Delta's alliance, the SkyTeam Alliance. There are 18 members. What should people know about the SkyTeam Alliance, Kyle?
You don't need to care about Aerolíneas Argentinas. Uh, you don't really need to care about Kenya Airways or Garuda Indonesia.
No offense to those airlines, but you can't earn their miles here, at least not, not easily, and the miles that they do have do not get you as far as the few within the SkyTeam Alliance that you do really need to care about. And honestly, there are basically three. It sounds like there's four because two airlines are in fact one, Air France and KLM.
We talk about their Flying Blue miles all the time. They, uh, can be absolutely invaluable, I would say definitely in the conversation for Top three, probably easily, I would say, among all of the airlines in the world, I would put Flying Blue in the conversation of top three, if not top one or two. Uh, Delta and its SkyMiles program, as controversial, as painful, as frustrating as the Sky-high rates can be, there's still a lot of value to be had within Delta SkyMiles.
And then the last one, Virgin Atlantic Flying Club, which, you know, a couple of years ago, I think both you and I would have said Virgin Atlantic was a big step above Flying Blue in both Air France and KLM, and I think those roles have reversed and, and, uh, Virgin Atlantic at probably a distant second and in some cases a third even to Delta, but that's kind of it in the SkyTeam alliance.
There's not a lot to get excited about here.
Yeah, uh, I would definitely say Air France KLM kinda top this list as far as the points you should be most ... The points you should focus on earning the most. Um, Virgin still has these aggressive transfer bonuses from the banks. Uh, we've seen Amex and Chase to Virgin at 40%, which is, I mean, nothing to be scoffed at.
If you can, you know, multiply your points like that, you should always try and do it. So that kinda keeps Virgin relevant, but yeah, the, es- especially if you wanna fly actual Virgin flights, the taxes and fees have gotten so egregious that it's not worth doing. Um, there's an airline on this list I've never heard of.
Have you ever heard of Tarom?
It is a Romanian airline based in Bucharest.
Okay.
That is all I know. That is the extent of my knowledge of Tarom.
Okay. You know, uh, this is my job. It is my job to know the world's airlines, and I had never seen that one before in my life, so sorry to the Romanians out there.
Anything else on SkyTeam? We've talked so many times about, uh, the, the way to book Delta flights, especially these, like, short hop domestic flights, is to use your Flying Blue miles or your, your Virgin Atlantic miles, and that's also how you can get kinda those transferable points into your account so you can book short Delta flights 'cause, uh, Delta likes to charge whatever they want, using SkyMiles or cash.
W- we have talked a lot about that workaround. I think we're going to continue talking about that workaround, uh, later in the show.
All right. Let's get to our third major world alliance. This is the One World alliance. There are 15, uh, member airlines, if you count Alaska Hawaiian as one airline. I don't know, do you?
I think we should.
I think at this point now they are one airline. Uh, this is home to American Airlines, most notably. Uh, what are some of the airlines in this list that are most important to you?
I mean, w- while, uh, American is the charter member of, of One World and kinda the ringleader, I think, uh, Alaska and Hawaiian pack the biggest punch, for sure, at least among the US carriers.
But there is It, it's, it's strange, you know, less than probably a quarter of the Star Alliance airlines were really worth caring about despite how big that alliance is. Here, it's more like half. Um, there are a lot of heavy hitters here in the OneWorld alliance, so Alaska and Hawaiian as well as American.
British Airways, you know, can always come in handy, their Avios program. Same goes for Finnair, Iberia, and Qatar Airways, um, y- all of which use Avios, but because you can transfer Avios from British Airways to Qatar or to Finnair and vice versa and transfer them around the network of, what now, five different airlines if you loop in Aer Lingus, which is not a member of the OneWorld alliance.
But because you can transfer them one to one and then get a better deal in doing so, you have to care about, really have to care about all of them. Uh, there's also Cathay Pacific and its Asia Miles program, one we just can't seem to shut up about, Japan Airlines, and then another kind of last shout-out, might be useful in niche situations, worth checking but worth going into it checking knowing that maybe it's not gonna get you the best deal, Qantas down in Australia.
Yeah, the OneWorld alliance is full of heavy hitters. Um, I don't really want to, to name a king. Um, I think just, you know, because Airli- or American Airlines' website is so easy to search on, especially to find award availability, that kinda makes it my first stop when I'm thinking about OneWorld flights.
But usually if I can see that availability there, then I'll head to, you know, an Alaska or, uh, one of the Avios or a Cathay Pacific to see if I can get a better rate or some lower taxes and fees. But this is, uh, OneWorld alliance is definitely full of heavy hitters. It is a, a, a Murderers' Row, a, a Yankees-style lineup of, uh, airlines there.
Keep searching for that next good metaphor.
Um, Kyle, there is a fourth alliance in the world, and I want you to be honest. Did you know about this alliance before I wrote it in the rundown?
I did not
Uh, ladies and gentlemen, the Vanilla Alliance, actually what it's called, uh, is home to Air Austral, Air Mauritius, Air Madagascar, and Air Seychelles.
So that is, uh, connecting the southern Indian Ocean there with those four airlines together, which are technically, uh, the fourth airline alliance in the world. And I would just like to say, Gun Air is formally asking for membership in the Vanilla Alliance. I, I'm gonna have to figure out what my route network is, but I promise you, we're going to the Seychelles.
It's gonna have to touch Africa because all of these airlines are, are running in and out of Africa. So, uh, get to it.
Yeah. The Vanilla Alliance, in case you were wondering. Uh, we also have, uh, two defunct alliances since 2020. We had the U Fly Alliance, which was all low-cost carriers like, uh, Hong Kong Express.
Uh, they closed up shop in 2024. Uh, the Value Alliance, also all low-cost carriers, Cebu Pacific, Jeju Air, Scoot, Tigerair, and ironically, Vanilla Air, uh, were all in that alliance, and they closed in 2023, so no longer worth it to keep track of the world alliances other than those big three that we went for.
You don't need to keep track of the Vanilla Alliance, I would say. You can probably let that, uh, recede into the recesses of your mind.
2027, though, could be a big year for the Vanilla Alliance.
It could be. Once, once Gun Air starts the nani from, uh, Minneapolis into the Seychelles to connect into that, that's gonna be amazing.
Uh, how do you keep all this, besides in your big, brilliant mind, Kyle Potter, how do you keep track of all of the airline alliances? Which points go where? What is your kinda method for this?
There's nothing going on up here, man. It's just a bag of cats, uh, which should be welcome news to everybody because in all honesty, we don't That's why I think we harp more on the fundamentals of how these things work because there's so much to keep track of.
If every podcast that we do, if every story on our site was just every single little detail, you'd be lost. And, uh, I often still feel lost doing this stuff because there's so much to keep track of, and it changes, you know, throughout the year as airlines make positive and mostly negative changes to their award programs.
It changes, um it changes as availability changes, all of these things. And so the only honest answer is, is that you don't keep track of it. It's just good to know the fundamentals and the reasons why these things work and are important, and then you can apply them to each situation. So in that situation where I knew we needed to get from Hong Kong to Bangkok for this trip, I looked at the airlines that were flying that route.
I knew that Cathay Pacific was our best bet. Cathay Pacific is a One World member, so then you go through the list of the six or more in that case. If it was, you know, a route that was operated by SkyTeam, it would be probably three, maybe four airline programs that were worth checking, and honestly, just check 'em one by one.
Are there things that I know where, you know, what, what most of these airlines would charge flying from the East Coast to Europe or from the West Coast to Japan? Yeah. I don't know what the heck these airlines charge flying from Hong Kong to Bangkok. I gotta go through and do the steps and search on each site individually to try and check it.
What does that process look like for you in real time, like, as you were piecing together this Europe trip?
It always starts with Google Flights just to see what all the flights are, um, and just to get the details of the flight, like exactly what the, you know, flight number is and when it takes off and when it lands so I know what I'm exactly searching for.
Um, so I always keep a Google Flights tab open. Sometimes in Google Flights, if it is a code share or a joint venture, you can see in little gray letters underneath some of the other airlines that are also marketing that flight, and that means that in that case you can usually use their miles to book it, so that gives you a little cheat sheet.
It's not always, it doesn't always work that way. Sometimes there are flights that don't appear there. Um, but then, you know, usually I will go to, uh, our master guide of transfer partners that we have on thriftytraveler.com. We'll link to it in the show notes. But we have a, a full running, always updated list of where you can transfer your points, and that's where I can see, like, okay Uh, I have this many Capital One points, and here's where I can send them, and then here's the flight I want.
I can reverse engineer it that way. But really, what I've been doing now is, uh, leaning on, on our great saint Peter, uh, Peter Thornton of the Thrifty Traveler Premium team. This stuff all does live in his head, um, and he has a big brain and plenty of room for it. And, uh, he puts it all into our, our flight deal alerts.
So if I'm, if I'm curious about something, and I, I know this is a bit of a shameless plug, but if I'm curious about a, a flight I need to book, I will go into my inbox, find the most recent premium deal with that airline that I know I need to fly from, and I'll just look and see, all right, what's the transfer ratio?
How long does the transfer take? What can I transfer to? Who can I book this with? And then I can just kinda take stock of all the points I have and be like, does, can I book this flight this way, or am I paying $400 cash? So that's kinda my, my usual order of operations.
Yeah, I mean, it really was, Premium really was des- designed to solve this problem from start to finish, including a part that we'll, we'll talk about kind of at the tail end of this show, which is availability.
Can you actually book this? Because especially when you're talking about utilizing these workarounds, these airline partner programs, and these alliances, availability is not a sure thing. So you need to find a flight that you can actually book, and then figure out, how do I use the points that I actually have in order to book this flight for the fewest amount of points and the least amount in taxes and fees total?
And that changes so much from, um, route to route to route. Um, you know, the right air, One World program to use flying from New York City to London is going to be very different than what it is flying from Bangkok to Hong Kong or vice versa. This stuff changes so much as you start to broaden your horizons and get to different places.
I too, I mean, the number of times when I search for our story of the master list of credit card partners because I'm like, "All right, so I need Cathay miles, but how do I get those again? And which one recently changed where, you know, you no longer get a one-to-one transfer?" It's Amex, but I forget this stuff all the time, so I'll, I'll go to that page and then do a Control + F for Cathay Pacific, and I see, all right, so American Express is there, but it's now 5 to 4, so I need to transfer more American Express points in order to do this.
But it's also a transfer partner of Bilt and Capital One and probably others that I'm forgetting. Citi ThankYou Points, surely. See, I'm, like, proving my own point- Yeah ... in real time here.
Yeah, it's almost easier to do it the other way. Okay, um, so yeah. I mean, unfortunately, the answer is, you know, we don't exactly keep track of it in a perfect way.
If you have the Traveler Premium, use your old deals. Uh, otherwise, just, you know, if you can understand who's in what alliance and you can know what points that you have to transfer to those various partners, I mean, that's how you're really gonna level up in this stuff. It, it is mind-blowing. Um, when you try to explain it to somebody who has no basis in this at all, it's, it is like, you know, "Why am I transferring my points to this South American airline?"
Or, "Why am I transferring my points to this Japanese airline to fly to South America?" And, um, that's the tricky part is just kinda, uh, trying to make it simple in your head.
I think, I think as you do this more, um, you know, as you figure out the best way to book your flight, your first flight to Europe or your first business class redemption to Europe or whatever, you start to build up a, a stronger baseline of just kind of having a gut feel for which airline programs to check, where maybe you don't have to check the roster of Oneworld airlines so frequently.
Spoiler alert, I still do. The number of times when I search Oneworld airlines to remind myself what the options were for booking this flight to Bangkok, I mean, it happens all the time. It just, it comes with the territory because there are so many possibilities of, of putting these pieces together. It's part of the fun.
Yeah, and you don't have to understand every single one either. Just get some, find some go-tos for the airlines you know you wanna fly, and if you're doing a big, complicated trip, that's when you kinda gotta dig deep. Uh, speaking of go-tos, Kyle, what's your favorite airline alliance?
You know, I ... It's, it
Coming to this answer, it surprised me. It's One World by far, despite the fact that of the major three US airlines, American, Delta, and United, American is by far my least favorite, the one that, that I would prefer not to fly, uh, compared to the other two options, at least when, you know, I c- I have, truly have a choice of all three.
Yeah, it's, it's One World because there are, there is so much possibility there. There are so many airlines that you can transfer points to from American Express and Chase and Capital One, and there is so much... There is such a big discrepancy from program to program to program of what the best one to use is, which just means there's so much more value there than I think, than I have personally found with the other big two.
Yeah. I'm in total agreement. Uh, I wish I could debate you here, but I think One World is definitely the best. I think it just starts at the top with that, the American AAdvantage program and the Alaska Atmos program are very easy to use. You can get really good value from those. Um, those points are not...
The Alaska points are a little harder to earn, but American points are getting easier to earn thanks to this new Citi partnership. Um, I think that, you know, and, and I've mentioned it before, but American's website being so easy to search for points and miles availability makes the entire rest of the One World alliance more and more valuable because then you know exactly what's there, and then you can go through your list that you had at the top.
I'm gonna run through the obvious. I'm gonna run through Cathay Pacific. I'm gonna run through them all, and then you can actually get the best deal, whereas, you know, sometimes with SkyTeam and Star Alliance, you're, it feels like you're, you're searching for a needle in the haystack, and then when you find it, it's like, man, I don't even know if I wanna go through the rest of the effort here.
But the One World alliance is by far the best. What about the flip side? Who's, who ranks third for you?
You know what? This-
Don't say Vanilla.
It's definitely Vanilla Air alliance. Um, this changes from week to week, month to month, I think. I think in general, the SkyTeam alliance is the weakest of the three by far, and that's not really even close.
My only hesitation with that is that because United clearly is such a black hole in the Star Alliance, it has muscled its way into making all of these other airline programs significantly worse. So I could, I could go either way on this one. I think on the whole, I probably get the, get more value out of Star Alliance redemptions over, over the course of my last decade in travel But then I also use, um, you know, especially Air France KLM, Flying Blue, and to a lesser extent Virgin Atlantic far more often to book Delta flights because Delta is my hometown carrier, so I could really go either way.
I c- I c- I thought I could talk myself into one answer over another, but I'm just gonna say the other two.
Yeah, I think SkyTeam is my least favorite. I think what pushed it over the edge was just the, uh, rise in taxes and fees with both Virgin and Flying Blue over the last two years. I mean, they've both had several, uh, tax and fee hikes in that time, so that's just, it's annoying.
Um, also because it's the one I use the most often, maybe I see, see all the holes and it's- Yeah ... scarred me a little more. But, you know, I use SkyTeam the most 'cause we're, we're hub captives here in Minneapolis, so I end up using those programs more than the others. Um, that said, Avianca's burned me plenty, too.
So I've got a gripe with all three alliances, but I f- I fear that, uh, SkyTeam comes in fourth just behind Vanilla for me. I think one of those top 10 feelings is coming home from a long trip and sleeping in your own bed again. We love staying at nice hotels and vacation rentals when we're traveling the world, but when you get back home, that's when you remember what comfortable actually feels like, especially when you have Cozy Earth waiting for you when you get there.
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Head to cozyearth.com and use code THRIFTY for up to 20% off, 'cause home isn't just where you live, it's how you feel. Comfort lives here, Cozy Earth. Back to the show. Okay, let's move on to a few of our favorite examples of alliances and partnerships. We wanna show people kinda in action, uh, what, you know, what we like out there, and what are some redemptions that, that kinda bring clarity to what this is all about.
What's one for you?
You know, my, my number one here is one that I think is, on the one hand, well-known, but also, on the other hand, I think gets forgotten too much. British Airways, um, is notorious for charging way too much in taxes and fees, and the same is true regardless of whether you redeem British Airways Avios to fly, say, British Airways business class over to London or vice versa, but also using American AAdvantage miles and even Alaska points.
And so the workaround here within the Oneworld alliance is to instead use Cathay Pacific miles because, uh, let me go through, uh, uh, I looked earlier today at a flight from Chicago to London. British Airways itself was charging as much as 99,000 miles and $408 in taxes and fees for that one-way in business class.
You could also go a little bit lower on the mileage, but even higher on the taxes and fees 'cause British Airways offers kind of a sliding scale for what to kick in and what not to, but that was the baseline. American was charging for the exact same flight 57,500 AAdvantage miles and $733 for that one-way in business class, one seat Cathay Pacific, exact same flight, 63,000 miles and $223 in taxes and fees.
So at the minimum, it's significantly less in miles compared to the 99,000 British Airways in ch- was charging, and about half the taxes and fees as well. It's, it's a phenomenal deal to get to, to London, especially compared to, you know, what the other baseline redemption would be, would, would be with Virgin Atlantic, where they're now charging often, you know, 30, 40, 50,000 miles or more, and $600 in taxes and fees.
Yeah. It's a really good one. Uh, yeah, Cathay Pacific kinda remains the exception here in one world where all, you know, the London taxes and fees have been, they come for everybody, uh, except for Cathay has somehow, uh, kept their, kept their oar in the water here.
They're, they're gonna hear this, and they're just gonna raise it to the roof.
What are we doing?
You're welcome, everybody. Um, my first and easiest example is using Flying Blue to book Delta. Um, there are, you know, almost infinite examples of how this works, but especially those, like, coveted nonstop flights, um, to places like Rome, to places like Honolulu, even from, you know, uh, midsize hubs like Minneapolis, you can get really big outsize value.
You know, you're looking at 100,000 SkyMiles each way to get to Honolulu on that nonstop, and if you book it when the availability's there through Flying Blue, it's 26,000 Flying Blue miles each way. Um, I've blown so many people's minds with this one alone just in the Minneapolis area. Like, "Hey, I wanna go to Hawaii.
Why is that flight so expensive?" I'm like, "It's not. Check your miles." Um, I also, I mean, u- using Virgin on the way back from Italy, which is a flight I will be on yesterday as you listen to this, on my way back, Rome to MSP, it was 1,200 bucks per person in basic economy, and instead I booked it through Virgin for 60,000 points.
The taxes and fees were a little higher. It was close to 400 in taxes and fees, but, um, we booked that for both of us to, to have the nonstop back to Minneapolis. So, I mean, there's just a lot of examples, a lot of ways that you can use Delta's partners to outsmart them.
And that's 60,000 points for two.
Correct. And 400 some in taxes for two. Yes. That's, yeah. Yeah. Compared to what Delta would've been charging for that exact same flight, I would imagine that was half-
Yeah, definitely ...
if not significantly less.
Yes, it's a very, very good one. Um, yeah. Beat Delta however you can. It, I know it's hard out there.
What's your next one?
I'm gonna beat this dead horse a little bit more. I just love Japan Airlines Mileage Bank. There's so much value here for not just Japan Airlines itself, but especially for its Oneworld partners and also non-Oneworld partners. So, you know, being able to fly 61,000 miles, uh, in business class to Europe itself is okay, but Japan Airlines charge, charges fewer fees than most, if not every single airline on this, on this list of Oneworld carriers.
Um, but better yet, you add in a return flight, book it round trip instead of one way separately, and it's not 120,000 miles total, it's 85,000 miles for a round trip in business class with reasonable taxes and fees. And that's true whether you're flying American Airlines, Iberia, British Airways, and even Emirates flying from JFK to Milan or from Newark to Athens and back.
I mean, this is a phenomenal deal that really is, uh, the poster child of why we care about this, because if you can find these little workarounds to save massive amounts of miles, you, you gotta do it. You gotta take advantage of this.
Yeah, I mean, I've Joined the, the Bilt ecosystem in part just because of this, th- their, uh, connection with JAL and the ability to transfer one-to-one.
Japan Airlines is definitely the, the program that has our attention the most, I would say, uh, uh, company-wide over the last, I don't know, six to 12 months here. They've just, it stormed onto the scene because of these new transfer partners, and it's just the best way to book a lot of different things. Um, my second one's kinda cheating, Kyle, because Aer Lingus is technically not in the Oneworld alliance, right?
That is correct. So Alaska, who is in Oneworld alliance, and Aer Lingus have their own separate partnership. Um, and this partnership leads to some really, really good prices on business class flights to Europe through Dublin. Um, the non-stops to Dublin usually price at about 55,000 Alaska Atmos each way. Uh, that's for flights that pretty much cut off at, like, what?
Chicago-ish, or-
Yeah, I think Chicago is 55,000. There's some stuff on the East Coast that's 45,000 for a one, one-way in business class, but basically anything Midwest until the Rockies, let's call it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's 55,000 each way, but if you tack on a very short connection to, like, a London or a Paris or an Amsterdam, uh, in economy, that drops the price down to 45,000 Alaska Atmos each way, which is one of the coolest deals in all of travel.
It makes no sense, uh, at least to my small brain. I'm sure there's a reason, and it's based on the difference in the fare for economy, something like that. I don't need to know the reason. I just know that it's amazing. It's one of the best redemptions in all of travel. But Alaska, uh, is the best way to book Aer Lingus.
Um, I've actually also booked Aer Lingus with American now that they have that partnership, but that's also not a, uh, a Oneworld partnership either. So, um, this is my, uh, my cop-out answer, but I just love this partnership so much that it, they, it, and it seems like they're all in Oneworld. I couldn't believe that Aer Lingus isn't in Oneworld.
I'm not sure why they're not, at a certain point.
Yeah, it's just, uh, I don't know. W- w- what is it about the, the Irish flag carrier that just doesn't wanna join
the rest of
the world?
They're holding, they're holding out for an invite from the Vanilla Alliance.
That's right. All right, what's your, uh, what's your third one?
Yeah, my, my third one gets to the point we made earlier about how sometimes the best way to use miles from a US airline isn't involving the US at all. And so, you know, flying, for example, from anywhere in the Middle East to basically all of Southeast Asia, or at least kind of the northern part of Southeast Asia, as well as Japan, let's call it, um, you could book business or first class on either Qatar Airways or Etihad for Um, for in the case of Qatar, they would charge you 75,000 miles for a first class ticket.
You can book that exact same route from Doha to Bangkok, from Doha to Seoul for 50,000 mi- uh, American Advantage miles each way in first class, or 40,000 in business class. This is just, it's, it's a hallmark of American A- Airlines award chart for its Oneworld partners. It is such a good deal, specifically in this, this kind of routing between the Middle East and Asia, but there are multiple examples of this where American Airlines is the right place to turn.
Yeah, that's a really amazing one, too. Um, quickly for my last one, uh, the Alaska and American partnership actually leads to really good rates on domestic flights when flying American booked with Alaska Atmos. Uh, some of their short flights are, like, 4,500 Alaska Atmos each way in economy, and only 9,000 each way in first class, which turns into a really sweet deal on some of those flights.
Even some of the longer first class flights, um, what was it? The flight deal that we sent our premium members a few months ago that actually Nick booked for his family for spring break, it was American first class, I think it was 16,000 Alaska miles each way. He just booked it for the whole family through a bunch of Atmos, uh, just a quick trip to Phoenix, uh, in first class.
It was a pretty, pretty sizzling deal there to book American as well. But I, I love that partnership. Always check both websites before you book anything Um, you have some honorable mentions?
I, I just have one 'cause we're, we'll get to, uh, one more, um, further down in the show. But, you know, I talked at the top of the show that Finnair is, is often my first place I check for great deals on any Oneworld route.
That was not the case for Bangkok to Hong Kong and vice versa, but it absolutely is the case flying American Airlines from anywhere in the continental United States to, um, Hawaii, Mexico, the Caribbean, and even Central America because it, they charge 15,000 Finnair Avios each way, even if you need to make one or two connections in order to make that happen.
So especially if you're in a small town and you're trying to get down to the Caribbean and you've got some transferable points, looking into using Finnair to book American Airlines with that connection or maybe two for 30,000 m- miles round trip compared to the cash prices or the American Advantage rates that they're probably charging for those exact same flights, there are some big savings there.
Okay. Let's talk about some of these partnerships that aren't necessarily in alliances. Um, I've, I have a few here listed. The craziest values are always in business class, uh, so that's what I have listed here in some of these examples. In many cases, economy is half the price or less. Uh, I would definitely run the search for both if you're interested.
Uh, one the, the first one that jumped out to me 'cause I had Alaska on the brain was Alaska and Condor, the German airline. Uh, you can fly Condor business class, which is really sweet. Despite it being kind of a low-cost carrier, uh, kinda fringe airline, they have a really, really nice business class flying to Frankfurt from the US and Canada for 55 to 70,000, uh, Alaska Atmos each way, uh, in business class to Europe.
Do you ever book that one?
I have not. John on our team has flown Condor business class using Alaska miles and, and vouched for it. Um, so I trust John's judgment there.
Alaska and Korean Air also have a partnership, a very unique partnership, uh, where you can book Korean business class for 75,000 Alaska Atmos, uh, each way.
Uh, wouldn't hold your breath on that. That availability doesn't come up a whole lot.
No, it does not.
Uh, tell me about some of ANA's funky partners.
Yeah, so ANA just has a bunch of one-off partnerships, which in many cases are some of the best partnerships and the best workarounds for using miles period.
The most famous of them is through Virgin Atlantic, which means that you can use, at least in theory, Virgin Atlantic Flying Club points to book ANA business class or first class from the United States to Japan. Um, in business class it gets as low as 52,500 miles each way. From the West Coast, uh, it goes up to about 60,000 from the Midwest, like Chicago and, and certainly the East Coast like JFK.
Availability on those routes is, is borderline nothing, but this would be another honorable mention. It's not quite an alliance, but, um, they have a good partnership even if it's, it's increasingly hard to make it work. Another one that's increasingly hard to make work, um, Virgin Atlantic booking Air New Zealand instead.
They still have this one-off partnership from a time before Virgin Atlantic joined the SkyTeam alliance. You can book, uh, business class from Houston all the way to Auckland for as low as 62,500 Flying Club points. Again, this is something that I don't think we've seen in going on two and a half years, um, for our Thrifty Traveler premium members, but when it comes back, that is a, a deal that's tough to beat.
I would say the single best redemption, um, in, in trying to get to Southeast Asia, um, in business class, which increasingly is harder to do because, um, airlines have gotten so stingy with award space with this, but you can use ANA Mileage Club miles and book Vietnam Airlines for 68,000 ANA miles each way, and I would say under $100 each way in taxes and fees.
That is an amazing rate for a flight that's more than 15 hours from San Francisco to Ho Chi Minh.
Yeah. I h- I have that one circled and bolded on my list somewhere. Uh, that Vietnam flight, that nonstop from San Francisco to Ho Chi Minh's pretty amazing. I, I would really love to put myself in that seat someday.
Um- Speaking of, uh, the Japanese carriers, JAL also has this quirky relationship with Emirates that you mentioned, uh, in the section above, which, uh, lets you book Emirates business class to Europe for 60,000 Japan Airlines miles each way or 85,000 round trip. Uh, that round trip pricing is so wild. And Japan Airlines also has this funky relationship with LATAM, uh, to get you down to South America.
S- same, uh, 60,000 Japan Airlines miles each way or 85,000 round trip in business class to fly LATAM Airways or LATAM Airlines business class all the way down there. Uh, and then finally, LATAM has another partnership with Finnair. Um, you can book LATAM business class for 75,000 Finnair Avios each way in business class.
So yeah, just some of the kinda oddball relationships that are out there. Aer Lingus has obviously a couple of weird ones, too, because they're not technically in the Oneworld alliance, but the airlines do have these weird links, uh, that are even harder to keep track of but if you know, you know.
Yeah, and you just, you gotta fan out and do a little bit of extra research when you're trying to book that big bucket list trip or even that quick domestic getaway because while a lot of the emphasis that we've, that we've made and the examples that we've used has, has been on business class, there are savings for economy, too.
I mean, again, that flight from Hong Kong to Bangkok is the perfect example of that, that, you know, the choosing the right versus the wrong partner would've s- cost me more than $100 for two tickets and potentially, you know, like 40, 50,000 miles. Um, y- it, it, it's worth doing the research, and I think maybe that's the takeaway here is that, yes, there is a lot here, but there's a lot of possibility and a lot of value, and if you're willing to put in even a little bit of extra work in order to find the best deal, there are going to be savings here every single time because every, you know, if, if you s- if there are five options that you search, odds are there's gonna be at least four if not five completely different redemptions, both in the mileage that you need and the taxes and miles that you pay.
Yeah. Okay, the value's clearly there. Um, understanding airline alliances is crucial. Are we making this sound too easy?
Yes.
Okay. Tell me why.
Because, you know, as we've talked about before, we have that great episode early in our catalog about the Ten Commandments of points and miles, and we've talked a lot about, you know, the limitations of points and miles.
And the reality is, is that everything that we're talking about here is finding the best award rate, finding the lowest amount of miles, and the lowest amount of taxes and fees. But that is only half of the equation. And as we talked about before, award availability is on the o- on the other hand, the more important and harder part of that, and it, it is also getting harder to find award availab- availability on these kinds of partner redemptions.
All of which is to say there is still value here, but especially if you're holding out for that Holy Grail business or first class redemption, I think you need to go into it with the proper expectations that you're, you may not, in fact, you probably won't find the exact date that you want. You need to be flexible and for, you know, the best of the best here, going into it with, "Well, I'm just gonna see what I can find, and if it works out, great.
And if it doesn't, I'll move on to the next possible deal." I think that's the right mindset because especially as we're talking right now, airlines have made this incredibly hard in order, in order to find these kinds of workaround redemptions because they're increasingly making it easier to, um, you know, use United miles to fly United Polaris for a bargain, especially if you've got one of those credit cards.
Or, you know, Delta, years ago, it was much easier to book a, um, Delta one seat from the East Coast to Europe for 60,000 Air France Flying Blue miles or 50,000 Virgin Atlantic Flying Club points. That second redemption through Flying Club doesn't even exist anymore, and finding it through Flying Blue has gotten much harder within the last couple of years.
So you just need to go into it adjusting your expectations.
Yeah, don't, don't transfer the points until you know the availability's there. Make sure that you just do, just, yeah, like you said, cast a wide net. Do a bunch more searches than you think you might even need to. Um, anything else on airline alliances, Kyle?
I still think, I don't want people to leave this thinking like, "Oh, well, you know, they really crapped on their own take about how important this is because I'm not actually gonna be able to use this." No, you are.
Yeah.
Um, there, there's a reason why we devoted an hour to this conversation because it's one of, if not the single most important thing in the world of points and miles is understanding why these alliances and partnerships are important and why they are worth spending time on because there is so much value there.
Okay, so, um, I just got an email back from the Vanilla Alliance. They said that they have denied me. Uh, so Gun Air will not be joining the Vanilla Alliance, so that means we're gonna have to go ahead with Kyle Airways and, uh, Sylvia Air. Are we gonna go with Sylvia Air? No. She likes it. Uh, Kyle, Kyle Airways, Sylvia Air, Gun Air are going into an alliance, but we need another alliance partner, and I, I have a pitch for you, all right?
Our guy Grover, who's written into the show before, has, has a, it's not a listener question this week, but he has a listener take. Um, and I want you to react to it, Kyle. So here's Grover. He says, "With all the recent changes regarding bag fees and Southwest now charging for bags, I had an idea, and it's probably not the first time you've heard this.
What if airlines were to charge for the carry-on bag but let you have the checked bag for free? Ultimately, airlines want to make money on bags. I get it. We also need bags on the plane for weight reasons, or that's what I was once told. The convenience of bringing a carry-on is the ability to get on and off quickly, not lose your bags, and not have to wait at the carousel.
The list goes on. So why not flip the script? Reward folks who are willing to check the bag, willing to wait for the luggage, and make those who want the convenience of purely a carry-on pay a little bit more." Uh, if I have to be fully honest, I think all bags should be free, uh, but that's never going to happen.
Bastian and Kirby need their vacation homes in Anguilla. What do you think about Grover's take? And the idea of Bastian and Kirby vacationing together in Anguilla
That's not happening
Those are the CEOs of, uh, Delta and United respectively
They, they are. That's not gonna happen, and Grover, I'm sorry, neither is this.
I think it is on its face a good idea, and it's something that I've heard a, a handful of times over just the last few years as, you know, it causes such problems during boarding especially. Why not charge for carry-ons and make, uh, checked bags free? The reality is, is that airlines do do what they do in order to make more money, and there is more money in checking bags because most people, whether right or wrong, believe that they need to check a bag, and that's what they do.
That's where the volume is. And, um, much as I do think it would improve the boarding process, I just, I don't see a way at this happening because there's too much money at stake. Airlines will probably... They did make in 2025 something in the neighborhood of, like, seven point eight some billion dollars with a B.
That's probably, especially after raising bag fees earlier this year, going to get north of $8 billion, maybe even $9 billion in 2026. There's a lot of money there. That alone is dictating what they charge for and what they don't.
Yeah. Well, as much as I'd love to fly Air Grover, I, I like that pitch. I agree with Kyle.
By the way, on Gun Air, only skis and golf bags in the overhead bins. Everything else goes under, and you're paying for it, 70 a bag.
Who- Yeah ... who's help- who's helping you get your skis inside the boarding door? Well- How are you making that right-hand turn?
You gotta do it by yourself. You gotta, y- it's, you know, you...
It's like you're carrying a couch down the stairs, you know? You just gotta get the right angle, and you can get 'em down the aisle.
You need somebody to yell, "Pivot," when you're boarding- ... with your big, you know, like, six-foot-long skis.
Exactly. Uh, I wanna hear your takes. Uh, how could you fix the airlines? If you want us to answer that or answer your questions on the podcast, hit us up at podcast@thriftytraveler.com.
We might feature your question on next week's show. To close, we do on the spot, and it's Kyle's turn to put me on the spot. What do you have?
If you could add... Yeah, I was gonna say add or subtract. I'm just gonna stick with add. If you could take one airline from one alliance and bring it into another in order to make your preferred alliance even better, what would you do?
Wow. Are the, are the big three, the US airlines, untouchable?
No. Okay Do, do what you want. I'm not gonna-
Okay. The easiest one would be to just bring Delta into Oneworld. Bring the airline that I have to fly the most into the, the alliance that I prefer to use. Okay. But that seems like cheating.
I, I see why you clarified- Yeah
'cause it, that is cheating.
Okay. Yeah. That seems like cheating.
So- This, I'm putting you on the spot. I'm also putting myself- ... on the spot because I came up with this question seconds before you pitched it to me.
This is the best part about Kyle's On the Spots to me. Um, it's equally confusing to him. Uh, let's see then.
In that case, I would maybe, I mean, I think I would add, uh, Air Canada into Oneworld, just because I love that program. Um, it would be really nice to be able to search for awards on Air Canada with American's website, you know, and, and Alaska's website. Like, just make that a little bit easier, and then go book it with Air Canada, who probably will offer something a little bit cheaper.
Um, and you know, just my beloved Canada. They've just got so many good routes and flights up there, and there's just so much to love in the North. Yeah. Um, what I loved ... Okay, that's my warning. Yellowknife using American miles? Come on.
Oh, y- You're, it's good you wrapped it up when you did, 'cause I was gonna have to hammer that button again.
We gotta finish the show really fast before I get fired. Thank you so much for listening to the Thrifty Traveler podcast. Rate us five stars on your podcast platform of choice, and like and subscribe to the show on YouTube. Send this episode to someone you know who needs to understand airline alliances and who needs a vacation because of it.
If you have feedback for us, send me a note at podcast@thriftytraveler.com. We'd love to hear from you there. Kyle, tell us about the team.
You just ripped through that. Yeah. That was impressive. I'm
getting fast.
Yeah. Uh, this episode was produced by your favorite host, the founder and soon-to-be-disgraced former CEO of Gun Air, Gunner Olson.
It was produced and edited by Sylvia Thomas and edited by Kyle Thomas. Our theme music is by Benjamin Tissot. See you next week.
See ya.